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Bad Golf: Community Edition
Posted: 10 February 2014 07:50 PM
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No story.  Only mechanics and mayhem!

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Posted: 10 February 2014 07:52 PM
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le_pants - 10 February 2014 07:50 PM

No story.  Only mechanics and mayhem!

So more like gta free roam mode.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 08:21 PM
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See here this post: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/13109/

since nobody has replied to this I’m totally downs with Bad Golf 2 .

My vote is to work in Unity.

I can do:

3D arts
programming C#

Here is what I think:

What tools are we gonna use?  Doesn’t matter as long as you output .png and .fbx
Are we going to create a story behind it for single player? No story, just multiplayer matches, different courses
Are we doing multiplayer? Yes but only local multiplayer unless we find a network wizard
What version of unity should we use (free vs pro)? free
What gameplay features will we be adding?

  * some sort of lobby to choose: player 1-4, color of outfit and level, number of lives, cart spawn time, etc options
  * 3rd person player controller, walk, run, jump, crouch, attack, die, get on cart, get out of cart, swimming ?
  * Driving golf carts, getting in and out of carts, exploding cart, sinking carts, stuck in sand carts
  * being able to swing your club at balls, people, carts ( the ball hitting might require some extra special control)
  * doing damage to people and carts
  * carts can do damage to people and send them flying ie ( ragdolls )
  * scoring with golf balls in the correct hole etc, keep count, negative points
  * mini map or some arrows to help you find balls and holes
  * UI to display scores, health etc.

eeeh thats what I can think off the top of my head.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 08:33 PM
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invadererik - 10 February 2014 08:21 PM

See here this post: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/13109/

since nobody has replied to this I’m totally downs with Bad Golf 2 .

My vote is to work in Unity.

I can do:

3D arts
programming C#

Here is what I think:

What tools are we gonna use?  Doesn’t matter as long as you output .png and .fbx //not quite since unity might not acept some formats, then you also have tools for sound and music and finally meshes and textures (and these yeah might be png)

Are we going to create a story behind it for single player? No story, just multiplayer matches, different courses //scoreboard vs leaderboard?

Are we doing multiplayer? Yes but only local multiplayer unless we find a network wizard //unity has some networking tools, and if it goes to steam we could use steamworks although i dunno how it works.

What version of unity should we use (free vs pro)? free
What gameplay features will we be adding?

  * some sort of lobby to choose: player 1-4, color of outfit and level, number of lives, cart spawn time, etc options
  * 3rd person player controller, walk, run, jump, crouch, attack, die, get on cart, get out of cart, swimming ?
  * Driving golf carts, getting in and out of carts, exploding cart, sinking carts, stuck in sand carts
  * being able to swing your club at balls, people, carts ( the ball hitting might require some extra special control)
  * doing damage to people and carts
  * carts can do damage to people and send them flying ie ( ragdolls )
  * scoring with golf balls in the correct hole etc, keep count, negative points
  * mini map or some arrows to help you find balls and holes
  * UI to display scores, health etc.

eeeh thats what I can think off the top of my head.

uhm maybe add a level system as to unlock balls with powers (explosive maybe?)?

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Posted: 10 February 2014 08:39 PM
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I’m probably going to regret saying this in the morning, but I can try and help out.

invadererik - 10 February 2014 08:21 PM

Are we doing multiplayer? Yes but only local multiplayer unless we find a network wizard

Does this count? (I am still working on this, but I’ve had a hectic 3 months and haven’t been able to find time for it)

I can’t draw to save my life though (can’t even colour between the lines in a toddler’s book), but I make up for that in my coding abilities.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 08:48 PM
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bobsayshilol - 10 February 2014 08:39 PM

I’m probably going to regret saying this in the morning, but I can try and help out.

invadererik - 10 February 2014 08:21 PM

Are we doing multiplayer? Yes but only local multiplayer unless we find a network wizard

Does this count? (I am still working on this, but I’ve had a hectic 3 months and haven’t been able to find time for it)

I can’t draw to save my life though (can’t even colour between the lines in a toddler’s book), but I make up for that in my coding abilities.

This forum seems to be crowded with programmers smile

Anything that helps is greatly apreciated and since this is a community project we dont or haven’t got a need for restrictions on people with the same abilities (if it wasnt a community project people often separete intro different teams) ( i do say this to reinforce the idea that the above frase about programmers isn’t misinterpreted), so your experience will help as anyothers though it will probably be easier (or harder) to create a multiplayer for an game being created from scratch.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 09:40 PM
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Awesome stuff, people!

If I had’ve been a bit more organised, I would have tried to get an community AF game jam off the ground. I’m glad that others are keen to make this sort of thing happen!


I don’t know how much time I’m likely to have for direct involvement, but I’d love to assist with coordinating and getting the word out at the very least smile

 

I’ve shot an email off to Greg (Double Fine’s Brand Manager) to clear up any copyright/IP concerns before we get too far ahead. I’ll also reach out to Patrick and invite him to share his thoughts as well.

Any plans for where this project should be hosted? I’d be happy to make a repo for it in the Double Fine Game Club github account and add everybody to it.

The #DFAdventure IRC channel on Foonetic.net is available for use too (we’ve got a webchat widget for it on the Game Club webpage).


Edit: I’ve also been pulling together a team to do preliminary work on another DF fan game (something more in the 2D point and click space) if after AF is over anybody is interested, give me a nudge :D

[ Edited: 10 February 2014 09:56 PM by Cheeseness ]
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Posted: 10 February 2014 09:45 PM
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Hey, I’ve got experience 2d and 3d art/animation. I’ve been doing much more graphic design stuff recently and haven’t done anything big in 3d for a while. Although I did help a programmer friend by making and texturing the lighthouse level from Fez for his university coursework. I use Maya, Photoshop and a ton of Illustrator lately.

I got fired from my crappy tech support job a month or two ago so been looking for a project to get the creative juices flowing and get out of the unemployment funk. I’ve used a little bit of unity mainly following their tutorial projects but I’m crap at programming :(

So I’d be up for helping with art and game design if this gets going! smile

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Posted: 10 February 2014 10:51 PM
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just a small thought would source engine be a cool possibility because it has a lot of online multiplayer stuff built in?
edit: IF people want to try for online multiplayer instead of local
edit edit:  nevermind, united with unity smile
edit edit edit: on second thought, what about a HL2 mod or TF2 mod?  gmod mod?  if it means we can get something running faster and then start messing with stuff right away, then that seems like a good choice, depending on what everyone is most comfortable with, I know I’m not going to make that decision, just a suggestion

[ Edited: 10 February 2014 11:05 PM by jasondesante ]
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Posted: 10 February 2014 10:53 PM
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jasondesante - 10 February 2014 10:51 PM

just a small thought would source engine be a cool possibility because it has a lot of online multiplayer stuff built in?
edit: IF people want to try for online multiplayer instead of local

So has unity.

Edit to add info on the subject of valve like network on unity: https://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/net-MasterServer.html

[ Edited: 10 February 2014 11:12 PM by Goldenheaven ]
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Posted: 10 February 2014 10:57 PM
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Got an initial response back from Greg. He sounds positive and is going to chat with others about it smile

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:00 PM
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Cheeseness - 10 February 2014 10:57 PM

Got an initial response back from Greg. He sounds positive and is going to chat with others about it smile

Sweet, about now three people+ on DF know about this.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:24 PM
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I’d love to help out where I can.  I an not at all artistic, don’t have a lot of daytime time I could devote to the project, and have never done any game design…  Not a stellar resume I know, but I’m decent a decent coder and would love to help out.

Assuming Patrick and DF are okay with it that is…  I don’t want to spoil the Cinderella story of Bad Golf 3 at the next Amnesia Fortnight.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:37 PM
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I can’t code. I can’t art. I am pretty useless, all things considered. Still, I like to think I understand some aspects of design and what makes a game fun. I am also really good with coming up with ideas. So, if you need an idea-guy to bounce things off of, I’m your guy.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:37 PM
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Whoa.

Off the top of my head:
- There will be *zero* issue with you guys (the wonderful DF community) making Bad Golf as long as it’s distributed freely.  The legal issues could only ever come up if there’s money attached somehow.
- Just to be sure about my last comment, I’ll talk with Justin (our COO) tomorrow.
- I’d recommend using Unity if for nothing more than the ease of the networking code.  Unless someone has a freeware engine with solid online multiplayer functionality, Unity is probably your best bet.
- As for the scope of the project, I’d recommend starting small and growing up to things like power-ups and back stories.  If Bad Golf 2 would have been picked, here’s a rough asset list of what we would have done in 2 weeks:

modelling and textures
3 golf holes, connected as one terrain mesh (so you could drive to other fairways while playing a hole)
1 golfer model, with different damaged states
1 golf cart model
golf ball (duh.)

animation
golfer swinging, putting, driving cart, emoting for whatever reason
golf cart moving

sound
title music, lobby music, in game music
UI sounds
golf cart movement (engine, braking, horn)
golf cart collision
player swing, hit, “fore”, enter cart, exit cart, hit reactions

UI
mini map for current hole
standard golf UI with swing power, aim, ball trajectory, etc.
score

programming overview
4-player multiplayer LAN
basic ball physics for golf portion
solid golf cart vehicle mechanics
UI implementation

Some notes on that asset list:
The most important part of Bad Golf is the cart driving.  It should be a blast to just drive around.  Spinning carts, sliding on wet grass, instant acceleration, all that needs to be solid before anything else can be good.  Initially, I’d avoid complicated situations like water.  Absolutely should you be able to jump rivers in a final version, but first pass shouldn’t have water on the course.

The second most important part of Bad Golf is the golf.  However, because Bad Golf is a fast-paced game, it doesn’t need to be a heavy simulation.  In fact, if we would have made the 2 week prototype, I think we could have short-sighted this portion and still made it fun.  I think the final version of Bad Golf would have mechanics on the level of Mario Golf for N64.  Solid, predictable, and not overly complicated.

I had always imagined there wouldn’t be any ability to move outside your cart.  You drive the cart up to your ball, press the ‘exit’ button, and your character would hop [Brutal Legend style] directly to the spot of the ball, ready to hit.  After hitting, you’d immediately jump back in to your cart and be ready to go.  There’s no time to watch that ball fly, you’ve got to go!  Also, if someone destroyed your cart while you were hitting, it’d reset back to where you were, so as to not screw you too bad.  This should explain why the asset list is lacking a full animation suite for the golfer.

Unless you guys want, I hesitate to go too deep into *exactly* what I thought the final game would be like, mostly because I don’t want to stop you from coming up with awesome ideas I hadn’t thought of.  Maybe I can make a huge spoiler post in another thread or something…


I’ll end with a quick story:
I’ve had the idea for Bad Golf for ~7 years.  I regularly pitch games to Tim (formally and otherwise), but I never mentioned Bad Golf because it didn’t seem like a game DF would do.  When Tim announced we’d be doing AF with the public a few years ago, I thought it’d be the perfect fit.  Bad Golf didn’t get picked up but I couldn’t let the idea go, so I re-pitched this year.  The concept of the game is so dear to me that I don’t care who makes the game, I just want to play it.  The fact that you guys are going to combine forces and put something together in the spirit of Bad Golf is incredible.  You have my full support and I cannot wait to play what you come up with.  smile

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:38 PM
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For me the two major inspirations I can see for Bad Golf 2 are Carmageddon and Road Rash; driving around this massive field while kicking/hitting/punching anything that comes close to your cart. However I think everyone using standard golf carts will become boring. Like Carmageddon, let’s have different characters with totally unique vehicles. Since this is a DF inspired project, why not incorporate characters from their franchises such as Eddie Riggs w/ Duece, Shay w/ Mini-Mog Chothra etc.

I absolutely hate the idea of a progression system. This is supposed to be a fun, wacky, over-the-top game; adding a progression system will do nothing but slow everything down and create a massive disadvantage to players who decide to join later. Call me old fashioned but games like DooM and Quake are infinitely more fun to play simply because everyone is on a level playing field and is reliant on player skill, not pointless upgrades that throw off balance ala CoD. Besides, I think it’s out of scope for a community project. raspberry

For a prototype there is no way in hell we can make a full 18 hole course (each hole being a separate map themed differently like Mini-Golf) OR different characters/carts. To get something out the door as fast as possible we’d need a human model, a golf-buggy model, one map (size pending), UI elements to show players where in the map their own ball and hole is and a way to get multiple players in the game. If we can get online play working, fan-freaking-tastic but chances are local play will be enough. I’d love to have more than 4 players (8-12 for more chaos) but again it’s out of scope for the prototype.

Anyone can dream big but we need to be absolutely realistic with our goals if we ever want something playable quickly.

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:51 PM
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I’ll help if you need dialogue or anything design related, but that’s probably Patrick’s department :D

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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:53 PM
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Patrick: Did you have any thoughts on gating? Were you planning to keep golf’s turn based pacing (with spectating players screaming and cheering as the current player runs over their balls, smashes up others’ carts or beats up on other characters before their timer ran out), or go for something consistently freeform and GTA like.

Something turn based feels like it’d be easier to tune and could potentially simplify netcode/allow for hotseat multiplayer.

Something more freeform would need some focused attention towards keeping players moving through the course (perhaps restricting a player’s driving distance to a generous radius around their ball?) instead of just brawling at the start of the first hole.

[ Edited: 11 February 2014 12:01 AM by Cheeseness ]
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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:03 AM
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I remember Bad Golf always being pitched with everyone playing simultaneously. Think of it more as a racing game and less of a golf game. More driving, less… driving (HA! I MADE A PUN).

Like a race everyone lines up, sets their initial direction/power/swing and once everyone is ‘ready’ (made their selection) everyone jumps in their respective carts and mayhem ensues. Unlike a race however the win condition in this case would be to get your ball in the hole with ‘traditional’ golf scoring. Birdie will become BADASS or something to that effect. The round ends once everyone has sunk their balls, meaning whoever sinks their ball first (or in rare instances gets a hole in one) gets to drive around and try to screw other players out of their scores.

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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:05 AM
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Cheeseness - 10 February 2014 11:53 PM

Patrick: Did you have any thoughts on gating? Were you planning to keep golf’s turn based pacing (with spectating players screaming and cheering as the current player runs over their balls, smashes up others’ carts or beats up on other characters before their timer ran out), or go for something consistently freeform and GTA like.

This is one of those situations where I can put out what I imagined, but I don’t want to kill any creativity or motivation to do it another way.  Buttttttttt…

Each player tees off, one at a time, while the other players shout taunts or mess with the player hitting.  Other players shouldn’t be able to affect the shot, just distract.  Kinda like this scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OophxEckcu0#t=8
After each player has teed off, all players are positioned in their carts, and a quick countdown plays.  3, 2, 1, or something.  At “Go!”, each player races toward their ball, or toward other carts.  If you reach your ball, you can jump out and hit it.  If you reach an opponent ball, you can run it over to give them a worse lie.  This continues until all players have holed out, at which point all players move to the next hole together.
To keep the focus on finishing the hole [and not a demolition derby], points are awarded for finishing first and getting a good score on the hole.  Players can augment this score by doing damage to other carts while keeping their cart from being destroyed.  Balancing this score will take some playtesting but shouldn’t be difficult.

<edit> Klink above is seeing eye-to-eye with me.  smile

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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:08 AM
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Based on all the game jams I’ve observed thus far, this is how it seems to work best:

Get a designer with project management skills and put him / her in charge.
Get one or two programmers, folks that know Unity inside and out.
Get as many artists as you can.
For a community game jam, most of the people that want to join up will be programmers, and once you’ve got your one/two programmers, everyone else will be rejected unless they are also artists.

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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:19 AM
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PatrickHackett - 10 February 2014 11:37 PM

Whoa.

whole lotta awesome info…

Patrick you are an absolute mensh.  Some people tend to be very heavy handed with creative control of their ideas, you’re being incredibly gracious about this.  If the community did put a Bad Golf 2 together, I’d hope you could see enough of your vision in it to feel like it was worth handing the keys to the cart over.

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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:22 AM
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Ugghh, I would totally do some models if I wasn’t so busy.

I’m curious what kind of art style you envisioned Patrick. How cartoony or realistic were you thinking?

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Posted: 11 February 2014 12:48 AM
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Squib01 - 11 February 2014 12:22 AM

I’m curious what kind of art style you envisioned Patrick. How cartoony or realistic were you thinking?

This one is a bit tricky.

There’s a true beauty to the game of golf.  Golf movies like Legend of Bagger Vance capture this very well.  I’d love for the environments to reflect that quality, and potentially the menu screens and UI as well.

The golfers, however, should not be realistic.  They shouldn’t be fantasy (no Pangya!), they should all be human, they shouldn’t be extremely exaggerated, but they shouldn’t try to be a Tiger Woods game.  Double Fine has always been good at adding a realistic feel to unrealistic characters, and I had always trusted that Bad Golf’s characters would line right up with the standard Double Fine style.

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Posted: 11 February 2014 01:26 AM
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It’d be nice to get some of the incredible skyboxes from Brütal Legend.

I just had a wild idea while eating dinner just now. What if the lobby system were the ‘tee off’ to each hole? Each player gets to make their shot, possibly see a map of where all the balls have landed and when all players select ‘Ready!’ it starts the countdown to the race.

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