Jobs Podcast iTunes Podcast RSS Tumblr @TimOfLegend @DoubleFine Google+ YouTube Facebook RSS
 
To participate in the excellent Double Fine Action Forums community, log in or register now!
1 of 2
1
Milgrim Official Thread
Posted: 16 November 2012 05:49 PM
  [ Ignore ]
Administrator
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  353
Joined  2010-07-20

Project Lead: Joe Kowalski

Milgrim is a game that puts you in the role of the bad guy. Of course, you don’t think of yourself as the bad guy. You’re a king, and it’s your job to govern your kingdom and keep trespassers out. And there’s a lot of them. To defeat the swarms of little men invading your kingdom you’ll construct levels, hire guards, and cobble together traps from the resources you have at your disposal. It’s like tower defense mixed with a 2D side-scroller. Enjoy the thrill of success as hundreds of tiny little men are defeated in your levels. You will kill these little men. You will know victory.

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 01:57 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Newbie
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  3
Joined  2012-04-27

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q9uIU5f8_58[/youtube]

Amazing pitch video :O

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 02:30 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Newbie
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2012-03-23

This is just awesome, I don’t only want the prototype I WANT THE FULL GAME! :D

 Signature 

Indie Game Developer Planet Bit Games

Follow us on Twitter @PlanetBitGames
Like us on Planet Bit Games | Facebook

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 03:55 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
The Smell of Cinnamon Rolls
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  72
Joined  2012-03-23

I can’t believe it hasn’t been made before. It is such a cool idea!

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 03:57 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Supreme Deity of the Forum
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  2777
Joined  2009-10-13

Reminds me of this, except you design the level

 Signature 

Sometimes I make games: http://www.surprisedman.co.uk
Personal site/Music Portfolio, etc: http://www.kestrelpi.co.uk
Twitter, Steam, Xbox Live, etc: KestrelPi

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 10:08 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Deity of the Forum
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  897
Joined  2011-12-11

Being a huge fan of the game Terraria, I really like this idea! Sounds like a 2D sand-box game + tower defense/strategy. Also, I think the DF artists have a lot of room to be creative with the characters and world. Just look at Wreck-It Ralph!

 Signature 

Hiding in your basement since before you were born

Profile
 
Posted: 19 November 2012 10:41 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
That Kid in High School Whose Parents Were Out of Town a Lot
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  80
Joined  2012-11-19

Yes, this clearly gets my second vote (the first being “Bragging & Fighting”).

Acefox - 19 November 2012 10:08 PM

Being a huge fan of the game Terraria, I really like this idea! Sounds like a 2D sand-box game + tower defense/strategy. Also, I think the DF artists have a lot of room to be creative with the characters and world. Just look at Wreck-It Ralph!

QFT. That’s exactly how I feel.

 Signature 

BAD GOLF 3! 2015!

Profile
 
Posted: 20 November 2012 01:14 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Unholy Action Forum Commander
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  219
Joined  2012-03-14

Imagine if the “little pixelated hero” was also controlled by a human. The players would be playing against each other but be playing completely different games. I think that kind of asymmetric gameplay has a lot of interesting design potential (i.e. do the levels autoscroll, do minions respawn, is level design continuous or a one time thing, can more than two people play, etc).

I think this may even work well on the newly released Wii U.

[ Edited: 20 November 2012 02:08 AM by Bent ]
Profile
 
Posted: 20 November 2012 02:07 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Administrator
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  809
Joined  2008-01-10

I dig that. No AI would match a human player for unpredictability.

Do you see the art style being this reminiscent of 2D Mario games?

Profile
 
Posted: 20 November 2012 04:02 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Action Poster
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  38
Joined  2012-03-23

TD/Mario?

Want.

Profile
 
Posted: 20 November 2012 09:41 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Newbie
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  1
Joined  2012-05-06

Amazing idea! My favorite pitch so far. And second to Bent’s request that players can play each other’s levels.

Really hope this gets picked smile

Profile
 
Posted: 20 November 2012 10:20 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Newbie
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  4
Joined  2012-11-20

I once tried to make this concept. Further down the road it’s harder than I thought to the point of “gee, no wonder nobody has made this before.” Hope you can pull this through!

Profile
 
Posted: 22 November 2012 03:19 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Dr. Action Poster, Esq.
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  45
Joined  2012-03-24
Bent - 20 November 2012 01:14 AM

Imagine if the “little pixelated hero” was also controlled by a human. The players would be playing against each other but be playing completely different games. I think that kind of asymmetric gameplay has a lot of interesting design potential (i.e. do the levels autoscroll, do minions respawn, is level design continuous or a one time thing, can more than two people play, etc).

I think this may even work well on the newly released Wii U.

Im in line with this.
woud be really intresting if you coud play Human VS Human.
If you had no one to play with however the good side woud then be controlled by the computer.

Voted.

[ Edited: 22 November 2012 03:29 AM by Lodium ]
Profile
 
Posted: 22 November 2012 04:52 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Supreme Deity of the Forum's Mother
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  3461
Joined  2012-03-24

I still think if neither Milgrim nor Redbot’s Reboot make the final four, Joe and Oliver should combine their idea into a single game where you can play both sides of a level: either design the level to kill the marios, or else program the marios to navigate the level. And then also let players upload their maps for other players to use their mario-programming skills to solve. Could be cool. =]

 Signature 

Recently Played:
Ni No Kuni
Final Fantasy 7
Strong Bad’s Cool Game For Attractive People
Scribblenauts Unlimited

Profile
 
Posted: 22 November 2012 10:10 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Newbie
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  4
Joined  2012-03-23

I removed voted from other leaders to make my vote for this count more.  Hope it makes final 4.

Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 01:38 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sexy Robot
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  346
Joined  2012-02-27

If you could play each other’s levels, then you could have a leaderboard of “answers” to a particular scenario.

So for instance, a stage has 6 coins to spend, I make a level using 2 gaps and one block, sacherjj uses 2 gaps and one block in different places, Lodium uses one gap and one guard thing. Then online you have
My level - played 230 times, caused 148 deaths
Lodium’s level - played 215 times, caused 163 deaths
Sacherjj’s level - Played 290 times, caused 252 deaths

And sacherjj’s level is the top on the leaderboard for deaths per plays

Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 02:20 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Dr. Action Poster, Esq.
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  44
Joined  2012-03-23

I really like the idea!

An issue that will be interesting to see solved is the question of forcing the player to build completable levels. In other words, if you could just build two platforms separated by a non-jumpable distance, that would end the game pretty quickly and not be much fun.

The thing about platormers is that the levels are suposed to be fiendishly difficult but nevertheless defeatbale. While creating the illusion of impossibility, the puzzle is to figure out how the level has been intentionally (and, hopefully, cleverly) designed for you to be able to beat it.

So the question is - how can you “tweak” the concept of a level designer to become (1) easy to work with - i.e. you are prevented from building impossible levels and (2) fun to work with - so that you don’t feel like you’re slaving away to entertain your computer (!)

Instinctivey, I feel like the answer may lie somewhere in time constraints and building on the fly as AI opponents storm your levels. Then again, maybe human opponents really are the key: if you are forced to build winnable levels, then theoretically, the AI would always “know” the solution unless it was programmed to be slightly stupid, which might take some fun out of it.

But there may be other approaches?

Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 03:03 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Sexy Robot
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  346
Joined  2012-02-27
Tremendous Yak - 23 November 2012 02:20 AM

I really like the idea!

An issue that will be interesting to see solved is the question of forcing the player to build completable levels. In other words, if you could just build two platforms separated by a non-jumpable distance, that would end the game pretty quickly and not be much fun.

The thing about platormers is that the levels are suposed to be fiendishly difficult but nevertheless defeatbale. While creating the illusion of impossibility, the puzzle is to figure out how the level has been intentionally (and, hopefully, cleverly) designed for you to be able to beat it.

So the question is - how can you “tweak” the concept of a level designer to become (1) easy to work with - i.e. you are prevented from building impossible levels and (2) fun to work with - so that you don’t feel like you’re slaving away to entertain your computer (!)

Instinctivey, I feel like the answer may lie somewhere in time constraints and building on the fly as AI opponents storm your levels. Then again, maybe human opponents really are the key: if you are forced to build winnable levels, then theoretically, the AI would always “know” the solution unless it was programmed to be slightly stupid, which might take some fun out of it.

But there may be other approaches?

My first thought was “the author plays the level to verify it can be done,” but then you’re just watching the computer be stupider than you, which spoils it a bit. Very interesting question.

Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 03:27 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Double Fine
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  3
Joined  2012-04-13

HELLO EVERYONE!
Thanks for your reactions and feedback. I wanted to take a moment to address some specific comments.

SurplusGamer - 19 November 2012 03:57 PM

Reminds me of this, except you design the level

Yes! I was going to post this video here, but you beat me to it. This is an excellent visual, for my version, I’d simply have a very short delay (milliseconds) between introducing each new hero, so they wouldn’t all stack up in exactly the same spot, and fan out a bit more.

Bent - 20 November 2012 01:14 AM

Imagine if the “little pixelated hero” was also controlled by a human.

I am VERY MUCH into this idea. But for the two weeks of development for an Amnesia Fortnight project, I really need to focus on the core gameplay, which is building levels for AI opponents. That will be tricky enough on its own, but it offers two big advantages:

1. AIs can be dumb. Because they’re dumb, you can throw a lot more of them at the player. This makes for a nice visual, and yet the levels don’t have to be as finely-tuned as they would for a real human opponent.
2. A one player game is a more manageable scope. Simpler UI, no network code, that kind of stuff.

It would definitely be a fun way to expand the game to include multiplayer features after the prototyping stage. I always envisioned Milgrim as game for tablets and smartphones, as they provide a great physical interface for building the levels. But I would love it if there was a version for consoles or PCs which was meant to be played with a controller where you actually got to play the levels made by the other half. It would be a great way to bring together touch screen and console gamers, with a game that was suited to the hardware of both.

As Bent mentioned, this would probably work well on the Wii U. Hmm… and Nintendo is the company that owns Mario. Nintendo! If you’re reading this, get in touch.

VicOfAges - 20 November 2012 02:07 AM

Do you see the art style being this reminiscent of 2D Mario games?

Yeah, definitely reminiscent, as much as I can be without being sued. Mario is a game with a very distinctive look, and it’s something that many non-gamers recognize. So when I show the game, but explain that you’re the bad guy and you build the levels, I think most people will grasp the concept pretty quickly.

It’s also a great setup for telling that particular story from the other side. After all, the bad guy isn’t the bad guy from his perspective. He’s just trying to run a kingdom. And along come all these little hooligans, stomping on his friends, smashing bricks with their heads, and ruining the vegetation. The princess could be hanging out with him by her own free will. Maybe she doesn’t want to be saved!

rofuru - 20 November 2012 10:20 PM

I once tried to make this concept. Further down the road it’s harder than I thought to the point of “gee, no wonder nobody has made this before.” Hope you can pull this through!

If you’re up for sharing, I’d love to hear more about it! Feel free to post here or email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). If this pitch becomes a reality, your experience could be really helpful.

Tremendous Yak - 23 November 2012 02:20 AM

An issue that will be interesting to see solved is the question of forcing the player to build completable levels. In other words, if you could just build two platforms separated by a non-jumpable distance, that would end the game pretty quickly and not be much fun.

This is definitely a big issue, and a tricky one to solve. If you look carefully at the animation I created for my 30 second pitch, you can see that when you’re dropping pieces into the world, they are surrounded by a certain amount of dead space where nothing else can be built.

pit.gif

The pit, for example, has an area above and around it where other things can’t be built. In theory, this would mean you couldn’t simply build a wall on the opposite side of the pit, forcing all your opponents to fall in when they tried to jump across it. While this isn’t a perfect solution, it’s a start.

Thanks for your support and enthusiasm, everyone! I’ll keep checking in here, keep posting any other questions or ideas you may have. You can also tweet them to me @codeloss.

[ Edited: 23 November 2012 03:29 PM by DF kowalski ]
Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 09:17 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Newbie
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  10
Joined  2012-03-23

Kickstarter this idea.

Profile
 
Posted: 23 November 2012 10:00 PM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Unholy Action Forum Commander
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  219
Joined  2012-03-14
DF kowalski - 23 November 2012 03:27 PM

2. A one player game is a more manageable scope. Simpler UI, no network code, that kind of stuff.

It would definitely be a fun way to expand the game to include multiplayer features after the prototyping stage.

You could do hotseat multiplayer for the prototype. It would preclude certain design decisions like continuous level design (where the player changes the level as the hero tries to beat it) but would have the advantage of eliminating the need to build an AI that would consistently make intelligent yet varied choices (which I’m guessing is no mean feat).

Profile
 
Posted: 24 November 2012 02:03 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Action Newbie
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  15
Joined  2012-03-24

One thing I’d like to see in this is a mechanical reason for you to place power-ups. For instance, if you buy your level items using some resource, they could give you more of it. That would at least somewhat explain why this doesn’t seem to happen as often as you’d expect:
propaganda_3.jpg

Profile
 
Posted: 24 November 2012 08:09 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Double Fine
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  3
Joined  2012-04-13
Magos Mechanicus - 24 November 2012 02:03 AM

One thing I’d like to see in this is a mechanical reason for you to place power-ups. For instance, if you buy your level items using some resource, they could give you more of it.

I love this idea, I had something in mind that sounds similar to what you’re describing. I was thinking that in addition to building things which cost money, there would also occasionally be power-ups with a negative cost. By choosing one of them, you’d have some extra money to build traps with, but then said power-up would be placed into the level (by the computer, to make sure it goes somewhere useful) right before the level start.

There would also be some levels that have power-ups already built in before you start, and trying to keep the little men away from them would be part of the challenge.

Profile
 
Posted: 24 November 2012 10:29 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Super Action Fan
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  54
Joined  2012-03-23

EDIT: I went ahead and made my own topic for this subject and Chris Remo answered my question. There is no ban list and old ideas can come back as many times as their team members want to try. Good to Know. _Thumbs Up_

Your idea may not be in the top four at the moment, but do not give up! This is a great idea!

I have a question though.

What happens to the games that do not make it the the top four but still have a lot of support (such as position six)? 

Are they put on some kind of ban list?

[ Edited: 25 November 2012 12:05 PM by Gumby-fan ]
Profile
 
Posted: 25 November 2012 10:34 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Unholy Action Forum Commander
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  219
Joined  2012-03-14
Magos Mechanicus - 24 November 2012 02:03 AM

One thing I’d like to see in this is a mechanical reason for you to place power-ups. For instance, if you buy your level items using some resource, they could give you more of it.

I think this is a great idea and inspired the following ideas:

1. A mechanic that lets the player make use of the power-ups by being able booby-trap them. Imagine the player notices that the hero does well on a particular section of the map with a power up, so this run-through as the hero approaches that section the player spends some credits to booby-trap said power up so that this time when the hero hits the “coin box” instead of providing a power up it spews minions.

2. If you were to back off on the asymmetry a little you could give the hero a limited ability to spend credits to place things like power-ups on the parts of the stage they have seen so far.

The proposed mechanic in #2 of the the hero being able to spend credits to modify the stage opens up all kinds of neat possibilities. By having the hero earn credits by doing things like killing minions and advancing further in the level it would introduce an interesting economy management aspect. By having the hero buy things like extra lives and power ups it would lead to situations like the hero losing the game because instead of spending credits to buy an extra life and ensure another go round he bought an expensive power-up that he hoped would let him power through. This setup also creates a rich dynamic:

Hero
Ways to win the game:
Primary: Direct interaction with the level (running, jumping, etc.).
Secondary: Level manipulation (buying/placing powerups, paying for things that eliminate specific obstacles).

Player
Ways to win the game:
Primary: Level manipulation (building the board, placing traps).
Secondary: Direct interaction with the level (booby-traping power ups, placing new minions, etc.).

The hero and the player would be best at their primary way to win and would only be able to use the secondary method in a limited indirect manner.


The player would start out with a limited number of credits and the hero would start out with none but both would have the opportunity to earn more. The hero would earn credits by killing minions and making it further into the level than he has on any previous life. Naturally, the player would earn credits by killing the hero.

[ Edited: 25 November 2012 10:37 AM by Bent ]
Profile
 
Posted: 25 November 2012 11:23 AM
  [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Administrator
Avatar
Broken Age Backer MASSIVE CHALICE Backer
Total Posts:  357
Joined  2012-11-15

So, I can’t find this on the web right now, but a number of years ago someone made a game called something like “Mario vs. God” in which one player places blocks & npcs and the other player navigates the level. I think it happened in realtime with both players looking at the same screen. Definitely promising and I’d love to see these ideas explored further!

Also, a bit of a tangent, but I’d love to do a similar thing in the shmup genre - what if you played the boss ship in Gradius and most of your gameplay was creating and launching waves of npc fighters to slow down and destroy the hero ships coming in to wreck shop. You’d spend resources to determine what kinds of ships were in each wave, then program their behaviors and flight patterns before launching. When a hero ship gets to the end, you directly control the mothership and try to prevent them from shooting the core.

Reverse Gradius for AF 2013!

Profile
 
 
To participate in the excellent Double Fine Action Forums community, log in or register now!
 
1 of 2
1