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Double Fine are BETTER than Nintendo
Posted: 25 January 2013 07:48 AM
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Everyone always says that Nintendo is the Gold standard in video game development. But recently, I have to say that Double Fine has surpassed them.

While Nintendo relies heavily on brand recognition, DF creates new experiences and new characters per game, making us fall in love with the new instead of relying on the old.

I will always consider Nintendo the Disney of video games, but I think DF is the new Pixar (before they were bought by Disney). The scrappy underdog that believes in that certain something special that makes a game unique.

We are at a serious crossroads with the video game industry, and I believe more companies will go the DF route and avoid the big hurdles they have to jump through just to get the coffee made.

So when I played The Cave on Wii U, it just felt right, and it got me thinking - What if Double Fine were given a Nintendo license to play with….

That is when I realised that I get more excited by DF than I do for Nintendo. If my 10 year old self could hear that he would gasp. But it’s true, and I hope that others on this forum agree, that I would prefer the next Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus be made by Double Fine. Just imagine what they would be like….

If there is a god, now is the time to show yourself…..

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Posted: 25 January 2013 08:18 AM
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Dastardly31 - 25 January 2013 07:48 AM

Everyone always says that Nintendo is the Gold standard in video game development

Wow, someone called repetitive BS the gold standard in video games? Some of their games sure are fun (playing them myself) but they are the big-daddy of milking and brutally pimping out old franchises. DF is very different, they are a creative little company, their games aren’t quite as polished, but they tend to do things different, or pick up something that hasn’t been here in a long time, it always feels unique and personal, i enjoy and appreciate that.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 03:31 PM
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At the risk of angering Xaro, I think Nintendo is pretty creative, too. Sure, they use the same basic gameplay mechanics and characters for their main franchises, but every game has creative changes to the formula. For example, put The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask and The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword next to each other and compare. They’re actually pretty darn different. Same franchise, same basic mechanics (solve puzzles, collect plot coupons, and hit things with your sword), but very different when you look at things such as art style, plot, and atmosphere. Same thing with comparing, say, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy. Think of it as being creative with formulas. It sounds like a paradox, but I feel that’s the best way to explain it.

Double Fine, on the other hand, never seems to want to do the same thing twice. Look at that lineup. A platforming game largely set in other characters’ minds. An RTS/adventure game in the world of heavy metal. A puzzler with stacking dolls. A World War I mecha strategy game. These are hands down some of the most out-of-the-box, so-crazy-it-could-work ideas in the modern game industry. They don’t have the manpower of Nintendo, of course, so they can’t put on quite as much polish, like Xaro said, but their games always manage to be fun. They don’t get creative with formulas. Every time they finish a game, they just throw out the formula of that new game and create something else entirely. And that is AWESOME.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, Double Fine and Nintendo are creative in different ways. As long as they can coexist peacefully and put out great new games like they have been, I will love both equally. Kirby out!

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Posted: 25 January 2013 03:52 PM
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Yeah, I’ve never understood the Nintendo just does the same thing argument. That’s something people who aren’t actually playing Nintendo games say. In fact, Nintendo usually avoid making sequels if they don’t have some new ideas to add to them. That’s why some of their franchises (like Star Fox) have been on the back burner.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 04:11 PM
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Meh, we’ve been there, i say it, and i do play and own Nintendo consoles and games (both new and old) but that doesn’t stop me from occasionally bashing them a little. Being a hypocrite was never sweeter though, considering there are still some modern Mario titles i liked, but i clearly prefer DF’s way of doing things, i think that got a little lost. I don’t think DF and Nintendo are competitors, seeing that Nintendo also is a publisher, i see them more as potential partners, and i wish they would work together some day to make something nice for my 3DS.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 04:15 PM
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Well The Cave is on the Wii U. Maybe that will get Nintendo’s attention.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 04:20 PM
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*turns pockets inside out* Nope, not buying a WiiU any time soon. But yes, maybe it’ll catch their attention.

I’m actually a lot more satisfied with Nintendo’s hardware.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 06:28 PM
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I think it’s nice with a game company that creates new characters and don’t reuse the old ones all the time, feels fresh. But I think can be good to have one or two that you reuse too, could be good for brand recognition.
One thing that could be cool is if a character that has a lead role in one game appears in other games but just in a small role. Probably have been done before though.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 05:00 AM
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I’ve had a problem with Nintendo since the N64. Whatever you think about their hardware (I don’t like that either) their games have been as creative as Call of Duty. Every year its a new Mario, Zelda, Metroid like clockwork. These “few new ideas” everyone talks about add up to little more than gimmicks when the core of their games are always the same. Rescue the princess (Mario, Zelda), shoot aliens (Metroid), shoot enemy ships (Starfox), collect Pokemon (There Will Be Blood), and eating people (Kirby).

These days they don’t even bother with new versions of those, instead making HD remakes over and over again. Most of its fans are just brainwashed by nostalgia and refuse to admit that maybe Nintendo isn’t that great these days. Speaking of hardware, can anyone honestly tell me they prefer motion controls to a traditional controller? How about 3D that adds nothing to gameplay? How about an Ipad with buttons?

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Posted: 26 January 2013 05:31 AM
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What HD versions? You mean the 2 N64 games they completely rebuilt for the 3DS or the one that they just announced that’s also a completely rebuilt game for the Wii U? Yeah, they’re really pumping out those 2 rereleases they made. There hasn’t been a Star Fox game (besides one of the 2 rereleases) in years either, so you just pulled that out of your ass. Kirby is also probably their most diverse franchise too. Kirby’s Epic Yarn, Kirby: Mass Attack, Kirby’s Canvas Curse, Kirby’s Pinball Land all play completely differently and don’t involve eating anyone. If you’re going to accuse people of being blinded by nostalgia, you should leave your own biases behind.

EDIT: Sorry if my tone is too harsh here. From other posts of yours I’ve seen, you seem like a good guy. I just don’t like being accused of being brainwashed for enjoying things that you don’t. Plus I’m tired and sick, so I’m a little testy right now.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 01:07 PM
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Eh, to be honest, Nintendo has been pretty hit or miss with me for a while now. I’m tired of their minimal story for the sake of gameplay. Look at what happened to Paper Mario: Sticker Star. :( That said, Kid Icarus: Uprising was wonderful and they really should allow their IPs to be used like that a little more often. I doubt it would ever happen, but seeing Double Fine get to work with one of their older IPs might actually be fun. Maybe even let them explore something different. Like, imagine Double Fine’s take on F-Zero. Or Ice Climbers. Or StarTropics. Oh man, now there’s an idea.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 01:09 PM
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I don’t think its a fair comparison.

Nintendo maybe back in the day was in a similar situation to DF today.

It may very well be that as DF gets more successful that they’ll go a route that will “taint” that idealism you hold and I think its inevitable. You try to do best by your people and eventually the art doesn’t matter as much as the people you’re hiring. I think there’s a balance there that is impossibly hard to deal with and you always come up with something unsatisfying to a degree.

With valve and their excellence they’ve stopped making games for the most part and are basically a games distributor, they can afford to have a game on the back burner for a while and just exist through that distribution as a means of income. The weirdness of all that means basically that their games also count as marketing as well as being more for the art of it in and less of sustaining themselves.

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Posted: 26 January 2013 03:47 PM
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Ryan Keokuk - 26 January 2013 01:09 PM

Nintendo maybe back in the day was in a similar situation to DF today.

Many people still don’t realize that, but Nintendo was a successful business before they gone into video games, they mostly made playing cards, i even have a deck here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanafuda

Nintendo never was in the situation of DF, so you are very right, the comparison is a little lacking, but they are still somewhat in the same business. smile

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Posted: 27 January 2013 12:38 AM
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Oh yeah, I think I remember that. I think the arcade business also changes the scope of it as well though.

I think being stuck with your own IP like they’ve been is an interesting challenge. I think creating new IP is freaking awesome though.

Thoroughly loved the Oddworld games and I like the innovation in Strangers Wrath where they put in an action platformer and imo successfully included fps elements.

I Loved the old Giants game, Citizen Kabuto was imo completely ahead of its time, and fairly unmatched in scope. I love Brutal Legend for its appeal to a SACRIFICE style rts.

I can’t honestly say that I’d have liked brutal legends more as a straight action platformer. There’s something to that exploration of gameplay that allows so much give…lost my point in all that goodness

Something to the affect that, the serial nature of their characters (nintendo) is something artistic in a fashion unlike call of duty. Partially because of the character driven nature n what not of their copy pasta.

As vanilla as Planetside2 is… I didn’t know you could have that large a world and have it work as half way decent as it does… Aliens vs Predator (never played the earlier ones) gave me a glimpse of some awesome asymmetrical design things, then I found Natural selection 2….This wall walking thing needs to happen more, which is apparently explored in Darkvoid a bit. Some of these concepts really should move into the AAA space and be explored by these big [] companies. No good reason not to.

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Posted: 27 January 2013 02:50 AM
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Nintendo is still the gold standard of development and there is no one in the world [right now] who can touch them(Lucasarts, Squaresoft, Capcom, Konami in their nineties heyday did).  The reason we still get Mario, Zelda, etc is because people still demand them.

That’s not to say they don’t produce the odd duffer(Sticker Star), but the Wii saw the seminal Super Mario Galaxy 2, chock a block full of ideas and one of the best regarded games ever made, Xenoblade - a fantastic game which was one of the few JRPG’s challenging the stagnation that’s hit the genre over the last five years, and of course the Wii ____ games, which do nothing for me personally but were well made and ridiculously popular for the target market.

The biggest problem for nintendo is that for every innovative new hit they make, people cry out for more of the same and it becomes more and more difficult for them to make anything new.  We’re getting new Pikmin, Xenoblade & Luigi’s Mansion games over the next year or two, all relatively or very new franchises that were very popular.

I take nothing away from DF who are a fantastic developer(I wouldn’t be here if they weren’t!)

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Posted: 28 January 2013 10:59 PM
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Get Nintendo to fund Psychonauts 2 or Brutal Legend 2, or a Tim Schafer written Mario RPG! :D :D :D :D :D

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