--- title: PsychOdyssey EP06 - “Creative Promises” date: 2023-01-20T13:06:00-08:00 author: Harper Jay canonical_url: "https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep06-creative-promises" section: DFTV Videos --- [Watch on YouTube: Creative Promises](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVAhUNJYZ6Y) [View transcript ](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep06-creative-promises#transcript) # Creative Promises Tim and new lead designer Zak lock themselves in a conference room for months, attempting to define the gameplay and story of Psychonauts 2. [ Download Video ](https://archive.org/details/Double_Fine_PsychOdyssey) Duration: 34 minutes and 23 seconds long Published: January 20th 2023 [psychodyssey](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychodyssey)[psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychonauts-2)[making of psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/making-of-psychonauts-2)[documentary](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/documentary) [ NEXT EPISODE ](#) [![](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/news/2023/02/PsychOdyssey-Cover.jpg)**PsychOdyssey** 4KClosed Captions](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey) ## Episode Stills Gallery - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Zak](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-01.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-01.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Zak") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim And Zak In Office](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-06.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-06.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim And Zak In Office") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Raz Figure](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-02.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-02.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Raz Figure") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim Whiskey](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-08.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-08.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim Whiskey") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim and Zak](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-03.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-03.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim and Zak") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Casual Zak And Tim](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-04.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-04.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Casual Zak And Tim") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Kitchen Tim](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-05.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-05.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Kitchen Tim") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim and Zak Couch](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-07.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-6-Stills-07.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 6 - Tim and Zak Couch") ## Episode Transcript 13 secondsPAUL: ...story document and drinking some Writer's Tears. 17 secondsPAUL: Yeah, what are you saving that for? 18 secondsTIM: Do you think it's time for me to drink the Writer's Tears? 20 secondsNow that I, um... 23 secondsNow? 25 secondsDon't show this footage. 28 seconds\[CLEARS THE THROAT\] 29 secondsOh! 31 secondsHmm! 34 secondsSo, here is to the writers! 36 secondsMeaning me. 37 secondsCongratulations, Tim. 39 seconds\[CLINK\] 41 seconds\[SIGHS\] 43 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 minute and 15 secondsTIM: So, we launched our campaign last night. 1 minute and 17 secondsAnd I was really nervous, and... it went great. 1 minute and 20 secondsTIM: Oh my god! 1 minute and 21 secondsTIM: A bunch of people gave us millions of dollars. 1 minute and 23 secondsWe are going to make a game. 1 minute and 24 secondsSo, thank you! 1 minute and 25 secondsYou are public now. 1 minute and 26 secondsCHAD: We got that new Psychonauts 2 designer coming in. 1 minute and 29 secondsRAY: I know... 1 minute and 30 secondsCHAD: And Tim's head seemed to be on: 1 minute and 31 seconds"I gotta start meeting with that guy every day." 1 minute and 34 secondsSCOTT: Uh, her hair kind of tumbles down. 1 minute and 36 secondsAnd it's kind of greasy, and stuff. 1 minute and 38 secondsAnd-- and I guess her collar kind of emulates brain waves on that one. 1 minute and 42 secondsTIM: Mm-hmm! 1 minute and 44 secondsI didn't even notice that. You are right, that's cool. 1 minute and 46 secondsI like that crazy neck thing in D though, like she is in a Venus flytrap kind of. 1 minute and 51 secondsBecause she should be, like... 1 minute and 52 secondsIt's weird, because Rasputin, the original guy over here... 1 minute and 55 secondsHe was-- there was something-- he had a strong force of personality. 1 minute and 58 secondsLike, he is persuasive. He kind of hypnotized people. 2 minutes and 1 secondSo she should be charming, I think, in the old days. 2 minutes and 5 secondsLike, she should have something commanding about her. 2 minutes and 6 secondsMaybe she is like Anjelica Huston. 2 minutes and 8 secondsYou know, where she is just, like... 2 minutes and 10 secondsRemember? From the 90s. 2 minutes and 12 secondsRasputin is one creepy dude. 2 minutes and 13 secondsLook at him, he is so creepy. 2 minutes and 16 secondsSCOTT: I know, dude, he is-- he is creepy looking kind of. 2 minutes and 18 secondsSo, like, a hot version of him. 2 minutes and 22 secondsTIM: Scott, uh, has been doing-- 2 minutes and 24 secondsHe has worked a little bit on the project since the art jam. 2 minutes and 26 secondsHe's been working on Maligula, 2 minutes and 28 secondsthe archvillain in Psychonauts 2. 2 minutes and 31 secondsBut what about-- 2 minutes and 32 secondsI've been meaning to ask you, what about Art Director? 2 minutes and 35 secondsTIM: We are... trying to find one. 2 minutes and 37 seconds-Trying to find one? -TIM: Yeah, you know anybody? 2 minutes and 41 secondsNo... 2 minutes and 42 secondsYeah, and we haven't hired an Art Director yet for the project. 2 minutes and 45 secondsSo I'm just kind of getting a jump on... 2 minutes and 48 secondsYou know, I still see Scott as the stylist for the characters, 2 minutes and 51 secondsand especially issues of Raz and the main characters, 2 minutes and 55 secondsand what they look like now, 2 minutes and 57 secondsand should they change at all? 2 minutes and 59 secondsSCOTT: But, dude, um... 3 minutes and 0 secondsBut dude, I want to talk-- 3 minutes and 1 secondI also want to talk at some point about your new Lead Designer guy. 3 minutes and 4 secondsSo, this is a Lead Designer for the whole game, you say? 3 minutes and 7 secondsYeah, I've been working with him on the design. 3 minutes and 10 secondsSo he is, like, the Erik Robson of this project? 3 minutes and 12 seconds-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -When did he start? 3 minutes and 14 secondsUh, yesterday. 3 minutes and 15 secondsHi, everybody! Thank you for coming to the meeting. 3 minutes and 17 secondsPlease join me in welcoming 3 minutes and 19 secondsmister Zak McClendon to Double Fine Productions. 3 minutes and 20 seconds-TIM: Zak, please stand up! -\[CLAPPING\] 3 minutes and 22 secondsHi! Hello. 3 minutes and 23 secondsTIM: Please remain standing. 3 minutes and 26 seconds-Uh, I have some questions for you. -ZAK: Sure, yes. 3 minutes and 28 secondsSo that everyone may get to know you better. 3 minutes and 29 secondsFirst of all, why are you wearing a microphone? 3 minutes and 31 secondsI was told I had to. So, that was the main reason. 3 minutes and 33 seconds-TIM: By that guy? -Yeah. 3 minutes and 37 secondsHe does. He is apprehensive about it. 3 minutes and 39 secondsASIF: Okay. 3 minutes and 40 secondsEverybody is. 3 minutes and 41 secondsTIM: Yeah, for the people who did not get a chance to interview you, 3 minutes and 43 secondsplease tell us, uh, 3 minutes and 44 secondswhere did you work before and what games have you worked on? 3 minutes and 46 secondsBefore that I was at 2K Marin, uh, and I worked on BioShock 2. 3 minutes and 49 secondsI was Lead Designer for that. 3 minutes and 51 secondsUh, and then, before that I was at Crystal Dynamics... 3 minutes and 55 seconds-With this guy. -TIM: Collusion! 3 minutes and 56 seconds-ZAK: Yeah. -TIM: I did not know that, wait a second! 3 minutes and 59 secondsZAK: Uh, where we worked on such memorable hits as Project: Snowblind. 4 minutes and 2 seconds-\[CHUCKLING\] -ZAK: And a game that never came out. 4 minutes and 5 secondsPAUL: What made you think that he'd be right for this job? 4 minutes and 8 secondsUh... 4 minutes and 9 seconds\[TIM BLATHERS\] 4 minutes and 12 seconds-\[LAUGHTER\] -PAUL: He showed up. 4 minutes and 14 secondsUh, no. He, um... 4 minutes and 16 secondsHe is just highly recommended from Lee, first of all. 4 minutes and 17 secondsAnd I really respect Lee's opinion. 4 minutes and 19 secondsAnd he used to be JP's boss. 4 minutes and 22 secondsAnd all these designers that I know, he was, like, the boss of them. 4 minutes and 25 secondsUh... 4 minutes and 26 secondsSo, I guess that makes him better, right? 4 minutes and 28 secondsThat makes him better than all of them. 4 minutes and 29 secondsNo, he, um-- he comes really highly regarded and recommended. 4 minutes and 33 secondsAnd I met him, and he was just really easy to talk to. 4 minutes and 36 secondsVery smart, um, guy. 4 minutes and 38 secondsJust, like, you know, when you are interviewing someone, 4 minutes and 39 secondsyou get that feeling of, like: 4 minutes and 41 seconds"Oh! When I hear them talk, I really, really want them to come... 4 minutes and 44 secondsdo this talking in the office." 4 minutes and 46 secondsLike, the, like: "Oh, all the things you are saying, 4 minutes and 49 secondsI want you to come do them here at the office." 4 minutes and 50 secondsWhat are you going to be doing here? 4 minutes and 52 secondsZAK: Uh, I am going to be on Psychonauts 2. 4 minutes and 54 secondsWith this man, right here. 4 minutes and 56 seconds-ZAK: I think that's what I'm doing here. -That's right. He is a designer. 4 minutes and 58 secondsIn case you guys didn't get that, he is the Lead Designer on Psychonauts 2. 5 minutes and 1 secondOkay, now you can sit down. So now people know. 5 minutes and 3 secondsPAUL: Did you happen to play Psychonauts when it came out originally? 5 minutes and 5 secondsZAK: Yeah, yeah I did. 5 minutes and 6 secondsI played it on the, um, on the Xbox. 5 minutes and 8 secondsI finished it, I got all the way through Meat Circus and everything. 5 minutes and 10 secondsI mean, replaying it now I was really struck 5 minutes and 12 secondsboth by just how ridiculously ambitious that game is, and how much is in it 5 minutes and 17 secondsfrom all different kinds of genres, 5 minutes and 19 secondsand just, you know, pure content and ideas. 5 minutes and 21 secondsUm, and then, how well it's actually pulled off 5 minutes and 25 secondsfor a new team that's building a game together for the first time. 5 minutes and 28 secondsAnd it's just so constantly inventive, and funny, and human, and charming, so. 5 minutes and 35 secondsZAK: Um, do people want to take a break? To get, uh, sodas or anything. 5 minutes and 38 secondsANNA: Uh, sodas would be good. 5 minutes and 41 secondsZAK: So, uh, the first meeting I wanted to just talk about Psychonauts 1. 5 minutes and 44 secondsAnd what people thought about it, 5 minutes and 46 secondsum, in terms of what's important about the game, 5 minutes and 50 secondswhat, uh, is sort of the essence and the core, 5 minutes and 52 secondsand, like, things that you think are, like: 5 minutes and 53 seconds"It wouldn't be a Psychonauts game 5 minutes and 54 secondsif we didn't do these things or have these things." 5 minutes and 56 secondsIn terms of the gameplay, and the story, and the spirit, and the feel of the game. 6 minutes and 0 secondsUm, and then, stuff that was good about it, 6 minutes and 2 secondsstuff that was bad about it, stuff you'd expect to see fixed. 6 minutes and 4 secondsWhat does this-- the game mean to you, 6 minutes and 7 secondsand what is, like, gives it its unique personality? 6 minutes and 11 seconds-ANNA: Okay, should I start? -Anyone, anyone. 6 minutes and 15 secondsIt would be awesome if we could preserve that-- 6 minutes and 18 secondsthat extreme, like, departure from your normal gameplay 6 minutes and 22 secondsin the-- in the mind worlds versus... 6 minutes and 24 secondsZAK: Right. Like, there was the-- the duality of the normal world being 6 minutes and 27 secondssort of closer to a normal video game. 6 minutes and 29 seconds-ANNA: Right, right, right. -And the minds being, like, 6 minutes and 30 secondsreally, really, diverse and crazy. So, that-- those extremes. 6 minutes and 33 secondsZAK: And then, I think a lot of the other things 6 minutes and 34 secondsthat are going to come up for a Psychonauts 2 are going to be, 6 minutes and 36 secondsyou know, surprises, 6 minutes and 37 secondsfor us, and for the audience for the game, and we are not really going to know. 6 minutes and 41 secondsWe are really going to try to, you know, embrace what was good about the game, 6 minutes and 43 secondswhich was its endless inventiveness. 6 minutes and 45 secondsAnd, you know, every time you went to a brain 6 minutes and 46 secondsnot knowing what the rules were, not knowing who's going to be there, 6 minutes and 49 secondsnot knowing what the enemies or any specific gameplay might be. 6 minutes and 52 secondsYeah, and you could tell that no one cared about the schedule. 6 minutes and 56 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 6 minutes and 58 secondsYeah: "I can't believe someone did this, 7 minutes and 0 secondsbut I am glad they did, because it's super cool." 7 minutes and 1 second\[CHUCKLING\] 7 minutes and 3 secondsYeah, that's the sort of thing that I-- I feel like, 7 minutes and 6 secondsin a 2 that we would have problems with, you know. 7 minutes and 9 seconds-Yep. -GABE: Justifying some of that stuff. 7 minutes and 11 secondsYes. 7 minutes and 12 secondsGABE: And I feel like that's going to be a... tension. 7 minutes and 16 seconds\[MUSIC\] 7 minutes and 20 secondsZAK: So, that's sort of the last of big studio involvement stuff for-- 7 minutes and 23 secondsfor Psychonauts 2 until people start rolling onto the team. 7 minutes and 25 secondsSo, if you have ideas, if you want to talk about anything, 7 minutes and 27 secondsif you want to talk about involvement on the project, 7 minutes and 29 secondscome-- come talk to me. 7 minutes and 30 secondsTIM: Zak's done things like involving everyone 7 minutes and 32 secondsin the brainstormings for the minds, and having those meetings 7 minutes and 35 secondsthat was a great impulse of his to, um... 7 minutes and 38 secondsWhereas I am kind of more, like, isolated. 7 minutes and 41 secondsLike: "I'm just going to be by myself with my notebook." 7 minutes and 43 secondsUm, Zak has definitely been driven to, like: 7 minutes and 45 seconds"Let's get everybody brainstorming from the very beginning." 7 minutes and 48 secondsAnd I think that was really helpful 7 minutes and 49 secondsto make everyone feel tied into the project. 7 minutes and 52 secondsZAK: I mean, I guess the-- 7 minutes and 53 secondsthe biggest thing that I want to accomplish is just 7 minutes and 55 secondsimprovement on the stuff that is-- 7 minutes and 56 secondsis obvious, and obviously fixable. 7 minutes and 58 secondsUm, you know, some of the things with the camera, 8 minutes and 0 secondsthe core controls on Raz, the sort of, um, 8 minutes and 3 secondsoverall level of polish in the core gameplay. 8 minutes and 6 secondsI think there is a lot of bits of Psychonauts 8 minutes and 8 secondsthat are sort of charmingly lopsided and don't quite fit together in a way 8 minutes and 12 secondsthat, uh-- that people expect and want from a modern game. 8 minutes and 16 seconds\[MUSIC\] 8 minutes and 18 secondsYou know, it's not easy to do. 8 minutes and 19 secondsIt takes time, and focus, and polish. 8 minutes and 21 secondsUh, but, I think, that's the thing that Psychonauts absolutely has to hit 8 minutes and 25 secondsfor a number two is to be as good a platformer game 8 minutes and 28 secondsas anything else out there. 8 minutes and 31 secondsThe other one that's further... 8 minutes and 32 secondsIt's a move that, I think, I really like, which is rolling up in your ball. 8 minutes and 38 secondsHe has his Thought Bubble around him, 8 minutes and 39 secondsand you steer him around like a little Morph Ball. 8 minutes and 41 secondsWait, wait, wait. I missed the beginning of that. 8 minutes and 43 seconds-ZAK: And then... -Wait, wait. 8 minutes and 44 secondsI'm still thinking about the last one. 8 minutes and 45 secondsTIM: He curls up into it. 8 minutes and 46 secondsHe curls up into it, and you roll him around like a little marble. 8 minutes and 49 seconds-TIM: So, like Metroid. -Like Metroid! 8 minutes and 51 seconds-TIM: Okay. -And then... 8 minutes and 52 secondsAnd then what you can do is you can roll the ball into different stuff 8 minutes and 55 secondsto give the ball different little properties. 8 minutes and 57 secondsI'm going to go find a little pool of sticky, 8 minutes and 59 secondsand get my ball sticky, and go up on there. 9 minutes and 0 secondsGet my ball sticky. 9 minutes and 1 secondWhat are these things that change the flavor of the ball? 9 minutes and 3 secondsLittle sockets, little wells, little... 9 minutes and 5 seconds-ZAK: Well! It could be an emotional well. -\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 9 minutes and 7 secondsYou go in, and then you come out, and you've got the emotion. 9 minutes and 11 secondsSo, anyway. I like that whole idea. 9 minutes and 13 secondsZAK: No, I mean, hopefully you find something fresh 9 minutes and 15 secondsand interesting to do about it that means, you know, 9 minutes and 18 secondsthat's not just, like, a: "We like this kind of thing. 9 minutes and 20 secondsWe, you know-- We like double jumps, 9 minutes and 22 secondsso we are putting double jumps in the game." 9 minutes and 24 secondsUm, it's one of the things with the high-level direction 9 minutes and 25 secondsof really trying to understand, like: 9 minutes and 27 seconds"What are we trying to do with the game globally? 9 minutes and 30 secondsAnd does every idea help contribute to that?" 9 minutes and 32 secondsZAK: This big mess here. 9 minutes and 34 seconds-TIM: Creative promises. -ZAK: Yes. 9 minutes and 35 secondsZAK: So, this is something that I started doing 9 minutes and 38 secondson the project I did with Lee. 9 minutes and 40 secondsUm, that was this big mess of a project that had-- 9 minutes and 42 seconds-That game that never got made? -Yeah, it never shipped. 9 minutes and 44 secondsOkay, so we know this is, like, a cursed method. 9 minutes and 47 secondsNo, actually. 9 minutes and 48 secondsThe problem with that game was, it had a million ideas in it, 9 minutes and 51 secondsand we didn't really know what its focus was, and so, um... 9 minutes and 54 secondsLuckily, we have limited board space this time. 9 minutes and 56 seconds-ZAK: We have limited board space. -TIM: So, we are not going to get... 9 minutes and 57 seconds-TIM: Yeah. -ZAK: Yep. 9 minutes and 58 seconds-TIM: You are an Acrobatic Psychic! -ZAK: That's important. 10 minutes and 1 second-TIM: Hilarious. -ZAK: Hilarious, there it is. 10 minutes and 2 secondsZAK: This game is going to be hilarious! 10 minutes and 4 secondsSee, I was just going to put, like, "comedy" or "humor", 10 minutes and 7 secondsbut "hilarious" adds a-- sort of raises the stakes. 10 minutes and 10 secondsZAK: It does. I like to-- I like to aim high. 10 minutes and 12 secondsThat's why you use the phrase: "Creative Promises." 10 minutes and 14 secondsBecause it has a moral component. 10 minutes and 15 secondsZAK: Uh, you can go into people's minds. 10 minutes and 18 secondsTIM: I mean, that's the same with him being a psychic. 10 minutes and 20 secondsUh, and it's the main structural-- organizational structure of the game. 10 minutes and 25 secondsGoing to put that-- So, that would go-- 10 minutes and 26 seconds-ZAK: I would argue for it, like, being-- -TIM: Number one. 10 minutes and 28 seconds-ZAK: Number one. -TIM: Probably. 10 minutes and 29 secondsZAK: You can pick literally, like, hundreds of different things to value 10 minutes and 32 secondswithin the experience from a design point. 10 minutes and 33 secondsAnd having a set of them 10 minutes and 35 secondsthat you can articulate to the team and say: 10 minutes and 37 seconds"For Psychonauts 2, actually, novelty is really important. 10 minutes and 40 secondsThat's why in your level Raz gets turned into a worm, 10 minutes and 43 secondsand has totally different sets of controls." 10 minutes and 45 secondsGets cut in half, turns into two Razs. 10 minutes and 47 secondsZAK: Oh-h! That... yeah. 10 minutes and 49 secondsBut it is a useful thing for the team, because if you are making a game 10 minutes and 51 secondsthat's a first-person shooter, 10 minutes and 52 secondsand people are trying to put puzzles in it... 10 minutes and 53 secondsIt's just like: "Look, we are not doing-- we are not doing puzzles." 10 minutes and 56 secondsZAK: Um, and I think the plan that Tim has for the story of the game, 10 minutes and 59 secondsand the setting of the game is-- is really strong. 11 minutes and 1 secondWe have an idea concretely of the core setting of the game, 11 minutes and 5 secondsand the core story of the game. 11 minutes and 6 secondsZAK: Um, and that's a great place to start, so. 11 minutes and 9 secondsCool. Hey, everybody! 11 minutes and 11 secondsPsychonauts. The story so far! Let me hold this now. 11 minutes and 13 secondsWhich key don't I press to turn off the computer. 11 minutes and 15 secondsJUSTIN: Um, the one that says power. 11 minutes and 17 seconds-\[CHUCKLING\] -Oh, look at that, it's right here. 11 minutes and 20 secondsThis is my keytar. 11 minutes and 21 secondsPoo-roo-roo-roop. 11 minutes and 23 secondsAll right. So, where we last saw Razputin. 11 minutes and 27 secondsThis is not going to be a fancy presentation. 11 minutes and 29 secondsGoogle and research. 11 minutes and 31 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 11 minutes and 33 secondsSo, a lot of what Raz decides to do is, in order to fight Maligula, 11 minutes and 37 secondsthe spirit of Maligula which is rising, 11 minutes and 39 secondshe needs to get Ford's help. 11 minutes and 42 secondsAnd so he goes into Ford's brain, 11 minutes and 43 secondswhich may or may not look like a Yes album, 11 minutes and 45 secondsand tries to link these parts of Ford's brain back together again. 11 minutes and 49 secondsAnd, um, once he does, he-- 11 minutes and 52 secondsRaz discovers a terrible secret about Ford 11 minutes and 54 secondswhich is that he wasn't shattered by Maligula. 11 minutes and 57 secondsHe was shattered-- He shattered his own brain. 11 minutes and 59 secondsBecause when he dug deep, uh, into his brain, 12 minutes and 1 secondmuch like the greedy dwarves of Moria... 12 minutes and 3 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 12 minutes and 4 secondsTIM: ...he found an evil within all of our collective unconscious. 12 minutes and 8 secondsDark, dark psychic power within his own head 12 minutes and 10 secondsthat he needed to fight Maligula, but he couldn't control it. 12 minutes and 13 secondsAnd I think of it as a mental Balrog, or a Malrog, if you will. 12 minutes and 17 secondsThat starts to try and take over Ford's brain. 12 minutes and 20 secondsIt starts to kind of come up and turn Ford into something else. 12 minutes and 22 secondsAnd Ford shattered his own brain to quarantine that creature 12 minutes and 26 secondsinto one of those little floating islands, if you will, in his brain. 12 minutes and 29 secondsAnd so when Raz heroically brings him back together, 12 minutes and 33 secondshe is like: "Yes! Raz, I knew you would do this!" 12 minutes and 35 secondsI knew you would, but you didn't bring that one last piece, did you?" 12 minutes and 37 secondsAnd he is like: "What?" 12 minutes and 38 secondsZAK: I also love stories in games, and I love writing in games. 12 minutes and 42 secondsUh, and so, working with somebody who has a much stronger understanding 12 minutes and 46 secondsof how to bring that human side, 12 minutes and 48 secondsand the story side into games is always, like, a really nice complement for me, 12 minutes and 51 secondsand a nice, uh... 12 minutes and 53 secondsa nice struggle to try to account for both of those things. 12 minutes and 56 secondsAny questions about that? 12 minutes and 57 secondsOkay, thanks for coming! See you later! Awesome! 12 minutes and 59 seconds-\[CLAPPING\] -Hey, you are clapping! 13 minutes and 3 secondsTIM: I'm excited also because no one else is on the project right now. 13 minutes and 6 secondsAnd having just me and a designer... 13 minutes and 9 secondsNever started out a game that way. 13 minutes and 10 secondsJust being able to focus on just the design 13 minutes and 12 secondsbefore they start throwing resources on us. 13 minutes and 14 secondsBecause everyone is busy on Rhombus of Ruin, or Headlander. 13 minutes and 17 secondsBut a lot of them are going to come off, and come on the project. 13 minutes and 19 secondsAnd then we gotta, like, be ready. 13 minutes and 21 secondsTIM: So, we have to be in that place that we were on Day of the Tentacle, 13 minutes and 23 secondsor, like, overprepared and designed. 13 minutes and 25 secondsSo, that's an exciting place to be. 13 minutes and 28 secondsTIM: Okay, what are the brains? What are the ten brains? 13 minutes and 30 secondsBut I don't have the brains, because that's all... 13 minutes and 32 secondsSo, the brains I know about. The brains I know about, so... 13 minutes and 35 secondsYou were almost going to say: "I don't have the brains, that's all you." 13 minutes and 37 secondsAnd I was hoping that we would get that on camera, but... 13 minutes and 39 seconds-Yeah, no, didn't happen. -Just be ready... 13 minutes and 40 seconds...in case he does that again, you guys. 13 minutes and 42 secondsUh, great! Another Psychonauts news. 13 minutes and 44 secondsPsychonauts 2. We are moving onto brain brainstorming. 13 minutes and 47 secondsBrainstorming about brains. 13 minutes and 49 seconds-ZAK: Meta brainstorming. -Meta brainstorming, which is awesome. 13 minutes and 51 secondsTIM: What do you think? Do you have any, uh... 13 minutes and 53 secondsWhat do you think about that system... 13 minutes and 55 secondsAs far as what I saw as the components of every brain. 13 minutes and 57 secondsZAK: I have the doc, I have your doc. Because I didn't put everything in with-- 14 minutes and 0 seconds-TIM: Occupation, role, host. -ZAK: Yeah, the host's role. 14 minutes and 4 seconds-The mental condition. -Mm-hmm. 14 minutes and 7 secondsThe setting. 14 minutes and 10 secondsThe aesthetic. 14 minutes and 13 secondsAnd the twist. 14 minutes and 16 secondsTIM: There was a lot of things that were hard to fit into these charts. 14 minutes and 17 secondsLike paranoia, where it's kind of a theme, 14 minutes and 20 secondsbut I think that comes more out of the... 14 minutes and 23 secondsI think the mental-- the mental condition becomes the theme... 14 minutes and 26 seconds-Yeah. -ZAK: ...of the whole thing. 14 minutes and 28 secondsZAK: Like, everything-- The twist should relate to that. 14 minutes and 30 secondsTo me, it, like, it all kind of comes out of the mental condition. 14 minutes and 33 seconds-It is the central one. -Okay. 14 minutes and 34 secondsZAK: My instinct is that... 14 minutes and 36 secondsif you really strongly try to hit on each one of those 14 minutes and 38 secondsas all five columns being super unique... 14 minutes and 41 seconds-...it'll probably be a little crazy. -Yeah. 14 minutes and 44 secondsAs opposed to, like, one of them being the central one, 14 minutes and 46 secondsand then, the other ones kind of support it as necessary. 14 minutes and 48 secondsA lot of them were just settings. Like: "What about a demolition derby?" 14 minutes and 51 secondsAnd they don't really-- that's not enough for, like, a brain. 14 minutes and 53 secondsWe need to be more specific. But it's a cool-- it's, um-- 14 minutes and 55 secondsBy putting them on the chart, 14 minutes and 56 secondsit lets you see how they could be combined. 14 minutes and 58 secondsYeah. No, no, I'm not arguing against it at all, I think it's great. 15 minutes and 1 second-Stop arguing against my chart. -I'm not arguing against it. 15 minutes and 3 seconds-Stop. Just stop. -I'm not. I'm saying the chart is great. 15 minutes and 4 secondsStop arguing against the chart. Okay. 15 minutes and 8 secondsZAK: Uh... hairdresser. 15 minutes and 10 secondsHairdresser, yep. World of hair. 15 minutes and 12 secondsWell, because we kept thinking-- 15 minutes and 13 secondsWe had, like, all that hair stuff we never used in Broken Age. 15 minutes and 16 secondsI've always wanted to have a world of hair. 15 minutes and 17 secondsBecause it would drive the programmers nuts! 15 minutes and 19 seconds-TIM: Right? -ZAK: That's why? That's why?! 15 minutes and 21 secondsZAK: Atari 2600 box art. 15 minutes and 23 secondsAll those covers were awesome. 15 minutes and 25 secondsGambling addict. 15 minutes and 26 secondsHilarious. 15 minutes and 27 secondsZAK: Bee hive. 15 minutes and 28 secondsCool and weird. 15 minutes and 29 secondsBut what would that be like? 15 minutes and 30 secondsCan you go to a world that was full of just Macy's Day balloons? 15 minutes and 33 secondsAnd you are-- you are just a big balloon, 15 minutes and 35 secondsbut you are controlling all the people on the ground that are driving you around. 15 minutes and 38 secondsThere is no platforming. 15 minutes and 39 secondsZAK: It's a bad idea, stay out of the brains. 15 minutes and 41 secondsNow on stomachs. I'm all about going into stomachs. 15 minutes and 43 secondsThere is a separate group, there is the Stomachnauts. 15 minutes and 45 secondsThat just fire in-- 15 minutes and 47 seconds-Gastronauts. -ZAK: The Gastronauts. 15 minutes and 49 secondsWait a second, I'm going to write that down. 15 minutes and 51 secondsLet's do one this way. 15 minutes and 52 seconds-Brain in a jar. -Jar. 15 minutes and 54 seconds-The host is a brain in a jar. -Okay. 15 minutes and 55 secondsThey have Peter Pan syndrome. 15 minutes and 58 secondsThey-- It looks like old movie posters. 16 minutes and 0 secondsAnd the twist is Rashomon. 16 minutes and 3 seconds-And the setting is... -ZAK: Wait. Peter Pan, movie poster. 16 minutes and 6 secondsA carousel. 16 minutes and 7 seconds\[TIM LAUGHS\] 16 minutes and 8 seconds-Done! This is easy! -ZAK: Poster, Rashomon. 16 minutes and 11 secondsTIM: I should have brought a notepad. 16 minutes and 12 secondsMight be a little too much going on in that one. 16 minutes and 14 secondsPeter Pan. 16 minutes and 15 secondsYeah, not wanting to grow up. 16 minutes and 17 secondsUh, well, how would someone not want to grow up? And that-- 16 minutes and 19 secondsIt does get a little bit into that Jungian stuff that I am interested in. 16 minutes and 22 secondsIt is that-- that idea that there is an archetype. 16 minutes and 24 secondsLike you felt when you first had kids. 16 minutes and 25 secondsLike a weird transformation going on in your head 16 minutes and 28 secondswhere you change from a person who thought about... 16 minutes and 34 seconds-...one type of things. -Yeah. 16 minutes and 36 secondsAnd then you became someone who thinks about a whole different set of things. 16 minutes and 39 seconds-Your priorities are completely different. -Yeah. 16 minutes and 40 secondsBecause that-- that-- the Jungian-- 16 minutes and 43 secondsJung would say: "The archetype of the father rose up in your brain 16 minutes and 45 secondsand became more dominant." 16 minutes and 47 seconds-Yes. -And some people... 16 minutes and 49 secondsIt, like, a lot-- My brother was the same way. 16 minutes and 51 secondsHe was like: "I don't want to get married! 16 minutes and 52 secondsI just want to go on these epic bike rides! 16 minutes and 54 secondsIf I had kids, I couldn't go on epic bike rides!" 16 minutes and 56 secondsAnd then they had a kid, and all of a sudden 16 minutes and 57 secondshe was mailing us videos of the kid all the time. 16 minutes and 59 secondsHe was like: "Oh my god!" And he became, like, ultra dad. 17 minutes and 0 secondsYeah. 17 minutes and 1 secondBecause, like, it really is like this other construct in your mind, 17 minutes and 4 secondsthat you weren't using, 17 minutes and 5 secondsbubbled up to the surface and took over. 17 minutes and 7 secondsAnd, uh... Like, he came fully formed. And that's what's so shocking about this. 17 minutes and 11 secondsHe knew everything about how to be a super dad. 17 minutes and 12 secondsLike, all of a sudden he was like: 17 minutes and 13 seconds"Dad time. Gotta get the ugly clothes, make bad jokes." 17 minutes and 16 seconds-Like, just... overnight. -The puns. 17 minutes and 18 secondsYeah. Just an overnight change, and, um... 17 minutes and 21 secondsAnd I think that-- I think there is something to that, you know. 17 minutes and 23 secondsThat these different roles are dormant 17 minutes and 25 secondsuntil they are needed, in your brain, you know? 17 minutes and 28 secondsRepressed. That goes with Censored Thoughts. 17 minutes and 30 secondsThere you go! There you go. It's a really repressed person. 17 minutes and 31 secondsTimeline scrub. Because, like, you are examining-- 17 minutes and 33 secondsYou are going to examine the censored thought 17 minutes and 35 secondsover and over again or something. 17 minutes and 37 secondsLili. 17 minutes and 38 seconds-Oh, man. Oh, man! -Interesting. 17 minutes and 40 secondsSo, Lili is hiding her thoughts about Raz... 17 minutes and 43 secondsOr hiding thoughts about something else interesting-- 17 minutes and 44 secondsOr what she wants to do instead of being a Psychonaut. 17 minutes and 46 secondsZAK: Okay, are you going to flip over some more? 17 minutes and 48 seconds-TIM: One more. -ZAK: All right. 17 minutes and 50 secondsTIM: Now I'm worried that you think this is going to go on for too long... 17 minutes and 52 seconds-...if we do this for a number of days. -No, no. 17 minutes and 54 secondsIf you say you want to start wrapping it up, 17 minutes and 56 secondsdoes that mean you think all the ideas we need are in this pile? 17 minutes and 59 secondsNo, we could come up-- We could do this forever. 18 minutes and 1 secondWe could do this forever. 18 minutes and 3 secondsSo as long as it's a finite amount of time. 18 minutes and 5 secondsYeah, and like I said there is no-- There is nobody on the other end. 18 minutes and 7 secondsTIM: What if we just kept doing it until all the ideas are perfect. 18 minutes and 10 seconds-Okay, sure. -\[TIM LAUGHS\] 18 minutes and 12 secondsThat worked. 18 minutes and 13 secondsNo, we are going to do it for four or five days. 18 minutes and 15 secondsYeah, that's fine. Four or five days. 18 minutes and 18 secondsWe'll spend the last day, whether that's Thursday or Friday... 18 minutes and 21 secondsYep. 18 minutes and 22 seconds-...wrapping it up. -All right. 18 minutes and 23 secondsOr extracting our favorites. 18 minutes and 25 seconds-Okay. -Four or five brains. 18 minutes and 27 seconds-Okay. -Well, however you want to do it? 18 minutes and 30 secondsI-- How are you-- How are you-- This-- That's what I said-- 18 minutes and 32 secondsThe brain. 18 minutes and 33 secondsYou are in the driver's seat of the brain stuff. 18 minutes and 34 secondsHe's going to say it, he's going to say it. 18 minutes and 35 secondsI said: "He is in the driver's seat of the brain stuff." 18 minutes and 37 secondsSee, I'm not going to say... 18 minutes and 39 seconds\[MUSIC\] 18 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: I'm going to-- Just to warn you by the way, 18 minutes and 50 secondsIt's going to happen soon. 18 minutes and 51 secondsEvery year, when it gets to be spring, summer-- 18 minutes and 54 secondsWhen the season strikes, the beard comes off, 18 minutes and 55 secondsand the mustache comes out. 18 minutes and 57 secondsAnd then it's mustache all summer. 18 minutes and 59 secondsOh, really? Oh, really? 19 minutes and 0 secondsTIM: And that mustache. 19 minutes and 1 secondIt's really, uh... its own kind of handicap, but... 19 minutes and 4 secondsHe keeps everyone guessing with his facial hair. 19 minutes and 6 secondsZAK: We did, like, just pure brain brainstorms. 19 minutes and 9 secondsAnd we have a giant list of, like, I don't know, 19 minutes and 11 secondsfive hundred brains or something, that we could do, and we are undecided 19 minutes and 14 secondson which ones are going to make it into the game. 19 minutes and 16 secondsUm, and then we've moved from that onto doing the actual, like, plot. 19 minutes and 21 seconds\[TIM DRUMS\] 19 minutes and 24 seconds(I'm just kidding.) 19 minutes and 25 seconds-ZAK: What? -We're gonna be over there today, right? 19 minutes and 27 seconds-Over here? Yep, sure. -Yep. 19 minutes and 29 seconds-Sure, why not. -Could you muster a little bit of... 19 minutes and 33 seconds-Make it sound like: "Yeah!" -Yeah! 19 minutes and 34 secondsYeah! Fuck yeah! We are going to do-- talk about story! 19 minutes and 37 secondsTIM: And we did brainstorming on minds a lot. 19 minutes and 39 secondsAnd then, we were getting near the end of our note cards. 19 minutes and 41 secondsAnd we felt like we hadn't done enough with the story yet. 19 minutes and 45 secondsI think that-- that's just-- it's just, like, um... 19 minutes and 48 secondsTo use my favorite knot analogy all the time, 19 minutes and 50 secondslike, you can't just grab one string of a knot 19 minutes and 53 secondsand just unravel the whole thing. 19 minutes and 55 secondsUm, you have to, like, pull a little bit on this one, 19 minutes and 56 secondsa little bit of this one, a little bit of that, 19 minutes and 58 secondsand they all start loosening up each other until you can just unravel the thing. 20 minutes and 1 secondAnd... so, it's like that. We can do-- 20 minutes and 3 secondsWe can do these brain designs, 20 minutes and 4 secondsbut then, we really need to know more about the story 20 minutes and 6 secondsto give us more ideas about brains, and, um... 20 minutes and 10 secondsAnd so we jump around. 20 minutes and 11 secondsAnd also creatively you just need to rotate the crops a little bit. 20 minutes and 16 secondsZAK: That's a really weird thing to want to learn how to do. 20 minutes and 19 secondsAnd who figured that out? 20 minutes and 20 secondsWhat were they trying to do? 20 minutes and 21 secondsZAK: You know, who figured out-- who figured out you could eat artichokes? 20 minutes and 23 seconds-ZAK: I don't know how these things work. -Well, they smell good though. 20 minutes and 26 seconds-Alcohol is the one that beats me. -ZAK: No, alcohol is easy. 20 minutes and 29 secondsZAK: Because rotting fruit just becomes alcohol. 20 minutes and 31 secondsI know, but why would you drink it? You'd be like: "Oh, rot, no." 20 minutes and 32 secondsBecause you needed to eat some rotting fruit. 20 minutes and 34 seconds-Because you are hungry. -Oh, you are hungry! 20 minutes and 36 secondsYou are hungry, and there is nothing to eat, 20 minutes and 37 secondsexcept for this fruit that has fallen-- Like, that's why wine is, like-- 20 minutes and 39 secondsWine ferments in the skin. 20 minutes and 41 secondsLike, grapes ferment in the skin really easily. 20 minutes and 43 secondsAnd so, if you just have, like, grapes that have fallen on the ground 20 minutes and 46 secondsand you are just like: "I am starving. 20 minutes and 47 secondsThere is nothing but these grapes that are on the ground." 20 minutes and 49 secondsYou start eating them and you are like: "Those grapes... 20 minutes and 51 seconds"Suddenly, I get along with my family a lot better." 20 minutes and 53 seconds...make being a hunter-gatherer seem like less of a bummer. 20 minutes and 56 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 20 minutes and 57 secondsZAK: Um, and then you learn how to make booze. 20 minutes and 59 secondsIt's one of those things. 21 minutes and 0 secondsEscaping... escaping life. It's very motivating. 21 minutes and 4 seconds-That's good. -All right. 21 minutes and 5 secondsAll right, tomorrow, I think, we are going to do more story stuff. 21 minutes and 7 seconds-Yeah. -We are just getting started. 21 minutes and 8 secondsYeah, we totally took a bite out of it. 21 minutes and 9 secondsI like to say that, because it's pitiful. 21 minutes and 11 secondsHave you watched on Seinfeld-- When they were doing the show-- 21 minutes and 13 secondsOn Seinfeld when they were doing a show about nothing. 21 minutes and 15 secondsAnd they had these brainstorming meetings where nothing got written down. 21 minutes and 17 secondsAnd they are like: "Well, I think we took a bite out of it." 21 minutes and 20 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 21 minutes and 22 secondsTIM: We are actually doing actual story work now on Psychonauts. 21 minutes and 24 secondsAnd putting up the different acts, 21 minutes and 25 secondsand all the things that are happening in Psychonauts 2. 21 minutes and 28 secondsANNA: Is it going to be cool? 21 minutes and 29 seconds-TIM: Is the story going to be cool? -ZAK: Oh, shit! 21 minutes and 31 seconds-We hadn't thought of that! -\[LAUGHTER\] 21 minutes and 33 secondsYeah, yeah, yeah. 21 minutes and 34 secondsANNA: This is just, like, a little reminder. 21 minutes and 37 secondsTIM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 21 minutes and 38 secondsTIM: Um, every-- We have a brainstorming meeting, 21 minutes and 40 secondsand we get stuck on a lot of stuff, but at the end of the day, 21 minutes and 42 secondsyou always are able to look back, 21 minutes and 44 secondsand you can come up with two, or three, or four, 21 minutes and 46 secondslike, those are major changes to the game we made that day. 21 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: All right, so, that-- I mean, that would mean we'd want 21 minutes and 51 secondsthe Psychonauts to be more, uh, on hard times when you get there. 21 minutes and 55 secondsWell, I mean, is it more hard times, or the people are more jaded? 21 minutes and 58 secondsThere is something kind of cynical about the place or, um... 22 minutes and 1 secondIt's not as full of bright-eyed enthusiasts like Raz. 22 minutes and 5 secondsBecause Raz is, like... 22 minutes and 6 secondsHe is reading the comic books about the Psychonauts. 22 minutes and 8 secondsHe is like: "These guys are the most amazing heroes." 22 minutes and 10 secondsHe's got a very romanticized view of them. 22 minutes and 12 secondsThey've lost their vision. 22 minutes and 14 seconds-Like, they've lost their-- -ZAK: Right. 22 minutes and 16 secondsThe... what's the word, they lost their, like, 22 minutes and 19 secondstheir vision of themselves, and... 22 minutes and 23 secondshe restores that somehow. 22 minutes and 24 secondsJust because he sees it as a noble profession to be a Psychonaut. 22 minutes and 29 secondsYep. 22 minutes and 31 secondsTo soar across the astral plane. 22 minutes and 34 seconds-TIM: Just think about it like NASA. -Yeah. 22 minutes and 36 secondsLike, there is a group that's always like... 22 minutes and 39 secondsFunding is questioned, mission is always questioned, 22 minutes and 41 secondsand it seems to, like, lose its way from time to time. 22 minutes and 44 secondsAnd then every once in a while, everyone gets fucking inspired. 22 minutes and 46 secondsIt's like: "That's right! We are a very inspiring thing!" 22 minutes and 49 secondsLike, is it-- You know, like, what... 22 minutes and 51 secondsWell, is maybe the original mission 22 minutes and 53 secondsof the Psychonauts not just about preventing psychic disasters. 22 minutes and 56 seconds-But, like, helping people mentally. -TIM: Yeah. 22 minutes and 58 seconds-TIM: Bringing people to this level of... -ZAK: Bringing people's consciousness. 23 minutes and 1 secondAnd bringing about world peace 23 minutes and 3 secondsthrough that kind of, like, psychic transcendence. 23 minutes and 6 secondsTIM: Yeah, yeah. 23 minutes and 7 secondsLike, inspiring people to better know themselves 23 minutes and 10 secondsand to be more empathetic to other people. 23 minutes and 12 secondsZAK: So maybe there is, like, an original, hippie mission of the Psychonauts. 23 minutes and 16 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 23 minutes and 17 secondsNo, I mean, like-- like, you know. 23 minutes and 18 secondsBut it's because maybe that more, like, militarized, superhero view of... 23 minutes and 22 secondsYeah, maybe they got militarized, 23 minutes and 23 secondsand that's why they don't feel like they have a mission anymore. 23 minutes and 25 secondsBecause they succeeded in their military mission. 23 minutes and 27 secondsBut then they are like: "Well, I guess the military thing is gone, 23 minutes and 30 secondsI guess we are useless now." 23 minutes and 31 secondsBut, like, that's never what they were supposed to be about. 23 minutes and 33 secondsThey were supposed to be about advancing the human psyche. 23 minutes and 36 secondsZAK: Right. 23 minutes and 37 seconds\[MUSIC\] 23 minutes and 39 seconds-Hmm. -Yeah, there you go, okay. 23 minutes and 41 seconds-All right. -That's good. 23 minutes and 42 seconds\[MUSIC\] 23 minutes and 52 secondsTIM: Um, and so it's never a waste. 23 minutes and 53 secondsBut some days are more frustrating, 23 minutes and 55 secondsbecause the one thing you are trying to figure out... 23 minutes and 57 secondsyou just can't figure out. 24 minutes and 3 secondsTIM: It's... you know, it could be a simple history thing. 24 minutes and 6 secondsZAK: Yep. 24 minutes and 7 secondsOr... there is some horrible psychic terrorist event happened, 24 minutes and 12 secondsand it leads to-- points to, like: "This looks like the work of Maligula, 24 minutes and 14 secondsbut she's been dead for wah-wah-wah." 24 minutes and 16 secondsZAK: Yep. 24 minutes and 17 seconds\[TIM DRUMS RHYTHMICALLY\] 24 minutes and 21 seconds\[ZAK HUMS THE RHYTHM\] 24 minutes and 25 seconds\[ZAK LAUGHS\] 24 minutes and 27 secondsThat'll-- that'll solve it. 24 minutes and 29 seconds-All right. -It's hard. 24 minutes and 31 seconds-It's easy. -ZAK: Video games. 24 minutes and 32 secondsAh. 24 minutes and 34 seconds\[ZAK HUMS\] 24 minutes and 35 secondsLevel designers will figure it out. 24 minutes and 37 seconds\[ZAK CHUCKLES\] 24 minutes and 38 secondsTIM: But why wouldn't everyone get on the... 24 minutes and 39 secondsWhen you are like: "Hey, I want to get Ford back together." 24 minutes and 41 secondsWhy wouldn't everybody just go, like: "Okay." 24 minutes and 42 seconds-Because you can't tell anyone. -You can't tell them. 24 minutes and 44 secondsYou cannot tell anyone. You are not allowed to tell anyone. 24 minutes and 46 secondsBut you mess up a little bit, and you tell Lili at some point. 24 minutes and 48 seconds-That's when it starts to unravel. -Yeah. 24 minutes and 50 secondsYou know, because, a part of that Psy-- 24 minutes and 51 secondsA part of the Psychonauts feel to me is, like: 24 minutes and 54 secondsLittle kids, out of their depth, saving the world, 24 minutes and 57 secondswith adults who aren't really paying attention, 24 minutes and 59 secondsnot helping them. 25 minutes and 1 second-Yeah. -It's that-- it's like the... 25 minutes and 3 seconds-The teen movie kind of thing. -But that could be so frustrating. 25 minutes and 4 secondsLike in Harry Potter. Because it's always like: 25 minutes and 6 seconds"If you would just go talk to Dumbledore, everything will be fucking fine." 25 minutes and 9 seconds-Yeah. -"Just go talk to Dumbledore. Just do it." 25 minutes and 11 seconds"Tell him that your scar hurts. Just go..." 25 minutes and 13 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 25 minutes and 14 secondsYeah. Is that too Harry-- It's like-- 25 minutes and 15 secondsGod, how many times can we ask that? 25 minutes and 17 seconds-Is it too Harry Potter? -TIM: No. No! 25 minutes and 19 secondsIs it not too Harry Potter enough? 25 minutes and 20 secondsIf it's not Harry Potter enough, is that okay? 25 minutes and 22 secondsTIM: You know, it's always funny with, um... 25 minutes and 26 secondsPsychonauts and Harry Potter, because you kind of... 25 minutes and 28 secondsum, it has a lot of the similarities. 25 minutes and 30 secondsIt's about a young boy with special powers, 25 minutes and 33 secondswho goes to a special training facility. 25 minutes and 34 secondsUm, and Harry Potter is such a big series, 25 minutes and 38 secondsand it covered so many of the things that can happen, that every time-- 25 minutes and 41 secondsIt's hard to not cite Harry Potter over and over when you are brainstorming. 25 minutes and 45 secondsBecause it's-- it's like Star Wars. It's like-- 25 minutes and 47 secondsThere is something in Star Wars that represents 25 minutes and 48 secondsevery archetype of storytelling, and you can kind of, like: 25 minutes and 51 seconds"Oh, that's, like, an Obi-Wan character." 25 minutes and 52 secondsYou know? And... 25 minutes and 53 secondsThere are a lot of things, I feel like, are done pretty well-- 25 minutes and 56 secondspretty well in Harry Potter. No, like, so... 25 minutes and 58 secondsThey are pretty much, you know, nailed in Harry Potter, 26 minutes and 0 secondsand other pop culture things I feel like wanting to stay away from. 26 minutes and 3 secondsLike, uh, the idea of a chosen one. 26 minutes and 5 secondsI think it's something we always try to keep away from. 26 minutes and 7 secondsBecause, I think-- Maybe because of The Matrix. 26 minutes and 9 secondsThe Matrix pretty much, you know... 26 minutes and 11 secondsAt the point when The Matrix came out, and, like, okay: 26 minutes and 13 seconds"The idea of someone being chosen, or possibly not chosen..." 26 minutes and 15 secondsBut we were like: "Let's stay away from the whole, like: 26 minutes and 18 seconds"You were born special, you are super special, 26 minutes and 20 secondsand wait till you figure out how special you are." 26 minutes and 21 secondsLike, just staying away from all that stuff. 26 minutes and 23 secondsAnd having it be more about the choices someone makes. 26 minutes and 26 secondsNot about, you know, what they were born with, 26 minutes and 28 secondsI think, is something that right now feels more interesting. 26 minutes and 32 secondsTIM: So, the water boss is in your brain, and it's what you do. 26 minutes and 35 secondsAnd that's how you save your family. 26 minutes and 36 secondsAnd your family does a cool acrobatic trapeze act. 26 minutes and 41 secondsOh, they all work together! 26 minutes and 43 secondsYeah, I feel like you are always taking-- 26 minutes and 44 secondsYou are kind of always stripping down past projects you've worked on, 26 minutes and 48 secondsor past things that you've enjoyed. 26 minutes and 49 secondsAnd kind of breaking them down, and reassembling them into new ideas. 26 minutes and 52 secondsAnd the trick is to not just take, 26 minutes and 54 secondsyou know, prebuilt LEGO piece of some other thing and snap it on, 26 minutes and 58 secondsbut to actually take it, break it down into, like, the essential feelings of it, 27 minutes and 1 secondand really digest it, and figure out why you liked it, 27 minutes and 4 secondsand put it back together to-- to make something different. 27 minutes and 9 secondsYes, do we-- Wait, do we have everything? 27 minutes and 11 seconds-Are we missing something? -It's a video game! 27 minutes and 13 secondsThat's a video game! 27 minutes and 20 secondsZAK: I'd love you to actually sit down 27 minutes and 21 secondsand write the story outline yourself because I think when you write it... 27 minutes and 23 seconds-Like prose form? Like you could read it? -Just, yeah-- yeah. 27 minutes and 26 seconds-Just be like: "Here is a summary?" -Like a treatment, if you will. 27 minutes and 28 seconds-How's two weeks for that? -Two weeks is great. 27 minutes and 30 secondsTIM: No one needs deadlines more than writers. 27 minutes and 32 seconds-Because otherwise... -That's right, so... 27 minutes and 33 secondsI've never written anything when I was in a writing class, or a writing group. 27 minutes and 37 secondsYeah. 27 minutes and 37 secondsOh, man, I can't wait to retire. 27 minutes and 39 seconds-Um... -\[ZAK LAUGHS\] 27 minutes and 41 secondsThere is a bunch of other stuff to handle. 27 minutes and 42 secondsAnd so, if you can handle, like, moving the story forward. 27 minutes and 45 seconds-Yeah, yeah, yeah. -Then that will be helpful. 27 minutes and 47 secondsNo, I should be handling the story in general. 27 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: That's what I think. 27 minutes and 50 seconds-And I... I will. -ZAK: (Yea-ah!) 27 minutes and 54 seconds-TIM: It's good, it's going to be good. -ZAK: (Yea-ah!) 27 minutes and 56 seconds\[MUSIC\] 28 minutes and 41 seconds-ZAK: ...we just used that time. -TIM: Oh, I thought you were reading! 28 minutes and 43 seconds-ZAK: No, no, I just finished it. -TIM: Oh, oh, okay, okay, okay. 28 minutes and 45 secondsZAK: I was-- I was reading. I was reading. 28 minutes and 46 seconds-All right. -Um... 28 minutes and 48 seconds-It's a first draft. -It is a first-- yes. 28 minutes and 49 secondsI don't know why that took so long. 28 minutes and 51 seconds-I'm never writing again. -\[ZAK LAUGHS\] 28 minutes and 53 secondsWell, good! 28 minutes and 54 secondsWe should talk about writing now. 28 minutes and 56 secondsNow that I finished my document. 28 minutes and 57 secondsI was really-- I had a writer's block on that document for a while. 29 minutes and 1 secondWriter's Tears. 29 minutes and 2 secondsI've saved this... 29 minutes and 4 secondsfor a long time. 29 minutes and 5 secondsBut now that I've finished the document, I can actually drink Writer's Tears. 29 minutes and 14 secondsYeah, I mean, I, um... 29 minutes and 16 secondsI gotta remember to write every day. 29 minutes and 17 secondsLike, if you don't write every day, 29 minutes and 19 secondsit takes a long time to get it going again. 29 minutes and 21 secondsIt's like getting on a bike. 29 minutes and 23 secondsJust on a painful, awful, hurtful bike. 29 minutes and 26 secondsNo, it's like speaking Japanese. 29 minutes and 28 secondsUm, how do you feel about it? 29 minutes and 31 secondsTIM: Uh, I mean, I think it's a step, you know. 29 minutes and 34 secondsI mean, I think I tried to put solutions to a lot of our questions 29 minutes and 37 seconds-Yep. -Um... 29 minutes and 38 secondsSome of it was just kind of, like, 29 minutes and 39 secondsthe quickest, masking tape version of a solution I could think of. 29 minutes and 43 secondsAnd, I think, now we just-- 29 minutes and 44 secondsour job is to kind of poke holes in it, and try and, like, tighten it up 29 minutes and 47 secondsbefore we let everybody read it. 29 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: And then finding the poker chip. 29 minutes and 51 secondsAll-- that all... 29 minutes and 53 secondsThat seemed cool to me? I don't know. 29 minutes and 56 secondsTIM: What do you mean? That was the stuff I was really-- 29 minutes and 57 secondsI waved my hands over the poker chip and kind of-- 29 minutes and 59 secondsBecause I do want to go to, like, a Monte Carlo place. 30 minutes and 1 secondAnd finding a shrine in the hotel room. 30 minutes and 3 secondsWhich is obviously, like, Gristol was staying there. 30 minutes and 6 secondsSo, I always refer to the stuff in video games, 30 minutes and 7 secondslike, when you are trying to figure out your video game script, 30 minutes and 9 secondsit's like footwork. There is, like, a footwork thing of, like: 30 minutes and 11 seconds"And then you find a thing, and find a clue, 30 minutes and 12 secondsand you have to convince a person to do a thing, 30 minutes and 14 secondsand then they tell you where the location is." 30 minutes and 15 secondsAnd that stuff is always, like, really hard to do. 30 minutes and 17 secondsUm, and so, the more you can collapse that down, the better. 30 minutes and 23 secondsIs the-- the extra hoop to jump through of-- 30 minutes and 26 secondsAs opposed to... 30 minutes and 27 secondsYou find Nick, and he's got a chip, 30 minutes and 29 secondsand a map of this, like, you know, hotel in Monte Carlo. 30 minutes and 33 secondsThe room is circled, and you are like: "We've gotta go there!" 30 minutes and 36 seconds-"He was getting close to..." -TIM: Are you saying the step... 30 minutes and 38 seconds...of Raz having to trick the interns into going there... 30 minutes and 40 seconds-TIM: ...is the problem. -Yeah, might not be necessary. 30 minutes and 42 secondsOh, yeah, I'm going to-- I'll just-- all these things-- 30 minutes and 45 secondsZAK: Like, you know the-- The whole thing might-- 30 minutes and 47 secondsWe can just not make a video game! How about that? 30 minutes and 49 secondsI just-- I always try to put things in Raz's hands, 30 minutes and 51 secondsbecause it makes him more active. 30 minutes and 53 secondsAnd then he uncovers the clue that everyone does believe. 30 minutes and 56 secondsSo I feel like there is some positive story benefit 30 minutes and 58 secondsto having no one believe him, 30 minutes and 59 secondsand then he does that work to make people believe him. 31 minutes and 2 secondsYes, there are just a couple of extra, like, mission steps in there. 31 minutes and 7 secondsAnd I'm worried about having places where it's like: 31 minutes and 9 seconds"And then you go wander around the base for a while 31 minutes and 10 secondsuntil you trigger this next thing." 31 minutes and 12 secondsLike, should we just try to have it be like... 31 minutes and 14 secondsYou go from one brain, and you go to the next brain... 31 minutes and 17 seconds-ZAK: Uh... -Because I was thinking some-- 31 minutes and 19 secondsTIM: There would be some things that you did in the headquarters 31 minutes and 21 secondsthat are real world things with the headquarters. 31 minutes and 23 secondsYeah, yeah, and there should be. And there should be. 31 minutes and 24 secondsTIM: I think he is just trying to remove, uh... 31 minutes and 26 secondsthings that are more like chores for the player to do. 31 minutes and 28 secondsLike: "Let's just get on with the story." 31 minutes and 29 secondsI think is what he is saying. So, I feel like we need-- 31 minutes and 32 secondsThat's why I think we need more details, and more, you know-- 31 minutes and 35 secondsIt's hard to tell from that really high-level discussion about the story 31 minutes and 38 secondswhether that will seem like an active thing that player is doing, 31 minutes and 41 secondsor seem like a tedious task. 31 minutes and 43 secondsHe didn't say he was underwhelmed. Let's say he wasn't-- 31 minutes and 45 secondsHe didn't go completely Gilbert on it. Is that what you are saying? 31 minutes and 48 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 31 minutes and 50 secondsAlso... Maligula dying. 31 minutes and 52 secondsTIM: Yeah, what do you think about Maligula dying? 31 minutes and 54 secondsI don't know... 31 minutes and 55 secondsI don't know, just wanted to have some real stakes that were permanent 31 minutes and 58 secondsand, you know, things that happen, and... 32 minutes and 0 secondsYep. 32 minutes and 2 secondsTIM: Cross of the line you can't come back... 32 minutes and 3 seconds-TIM: ...somewhere in the game. -Yep. 32 minutes and 5 secondsI was toying with the idea of, like, Ford dies, or something like that. 32 minutes and 8 secondsBut I feel like that might be just too down of an ending. 32 minutes and 9 secondsZAK: Yeah. 32 minutes and 10 secondsShe doesn't have to die. She's like-- She has-- 32 minutes and 12 secondsShe has committed atrocities. 32 minutes and 14 secondsSo her coming back, and having the world accept her again, 32 minutes and 17 secondsand Ford loving her again, like, it seemed like that could... 32 minutes and 20 seconds-TIM: That could be a problem. -But... yes. 32 minutes and 21 secondsOr she makes peace with her demons, and then dies at rest. 32 minutes and 24 secondsThat's what I was trying to sell. 32 minutes and 26 seconds-I wasn't, like... -ZAK: Yep. 32 minutes and 27 secondsTIM: Yeah, it's like Dead Man Walking. 32 minutes and 30 seconds-ZAK: Somebody's gotta die. -I mean, it could be really... 32 minutes and 32 secondsIt's, like, Ford begging to be shattered again could be super sad. 32 minutes and 35 secondsIf we wanted that to be sad. 32 minutes and 37 secondsI mean, we could. And, like, for a while I was like: 32 minutes and 39 seconds"We could actually end it with Ford re-shattering." 32 minutes and 41 seconds-Because he is like: "No, I can't..." -ZAK: And then he is like: "Hey!" 32 minutes and 43 seconds-\[ZAK LAUGHS\] -TIM: I couldn't think of a way to... 32 minutes and 45 secondsIt's super sad, and then he becomes kooky old man Ford. 32 minutes and 47 secondsTIM: "What are you kids doing on my lawn?!" 32 minutes and 49 seconds\[ZAK LAUGHS\] 32 minutes and 51 secondsAnd you are like: "Nothing. Nothing, Ford." 32 minutes and 55 seconds"Who is this old lady here? 32 minutes and 56 secondsI gotta-- I gotta bury this lady. I'm the gravedigger." 32 minutes and 58 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 33 minutes and 0 secondsThrows her in a sack. 33 minutes and 1 second-Oh, no. Oh, no... -\[TIM LAUGHS\] 33 minutes and 4 secondsYeah, you sold me on that. That's better. 33 minutes and 7 secondsYep, yep. 33 minutes and 10 secondsYeah! I think it's a good-- I think it's a good first draft. 33 minutes and 13 secondsZAK: All right, I gotta get going. 33 minutes and 15 seconds\[MUSIC\] 33 minutes and 49 secondsTIM: Have you ever had a pee that was so-- felt so good you are like: 33 minutes and 52 seconds"Oh, god, wait. What if I'm dreaming right now?" 33 minutes and 55 secondsYou know what I'm saying, right? You know what I'm saying? 33 minutes and 56 seconds-ASIF: Sure. -Come on! 33 minutes and 58 secondsBecause you-- Like, you ever had that-- 34 minutes and 0 secondsYou ever had that dream where you are like: 34 minutes and 2 seconds-"Oh, yeah, I'm in the bathroom." -Yeah. 34 minutes and 3 seconds"And I could totally pee right now." And then you are like: 34 minutes and 5 seconds-"Wait a second!" -"Wait a minute! Wait a minute!" 34 minutes and 7 seconds-"I'm not in the bathroom!" -Yeah. 34 minutes and 8 secondsAnd you have to get out of the bed, and you are like: 34 minutes and 10 seconds"I got you that time, buddy!" 34 minutes and 12 secondsI also wrote down-- 34 minutes and 13 secondsI'm going to put a star next to this too. 34 minutes and 15 seconds"If you die in the mental world... 34 minutes and 16 seconds-...you pee your pants." -...you pee your pants." 34 minutes and 17 secondsI noticed you didn't write that down. 34 minutes and 18 secondsThat is gold! 34 minutes and 19 seconds\[ZAK LAUGHS\] [ZAK LAUGHS] Show transcript timestamps