--- title: PsychOdyssey EP14 - “Surface Tension” date: 2023-01-20T13:15:00-08:00 author: Harper Jay canonical_url: "https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep14-surface-tension" section: DFTV Videos --- [Watch on YouTube: Surface Tension](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPY0guNICJM) [View transcript ](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep14-surface-tension#transcript) # Surface Tension Frustration from Amnesia Fortnight carries back over into Psychonauts 2 as the team struggles to see eye to eye on the execution of the newest level concept. [ Download Video ](https://archive.org/details/Double_Fine_PsychOdyssey) Duration: 37 minutes and 20 seconds long Published: January 20th 2023 [psychodyssey](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychodyssey)[psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychonauts-2)[making of psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/making-of-psychonauts-2)[documentary](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/documentary) [ NEXT EPISODE ](#) [![](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/news/2023/02/PsychOdyssey-Cover.jpg)**PsychOdyssey** 4KClosed Captions](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey) ## Episode Stills Gallery - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Asif talks to Ryan](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-01.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-01.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Asif talks to Ryan") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Zak bemused](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-07.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-07.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Zak bemused") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - The passion of James](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-02.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-02.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - The passion of James") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Tim is lit](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-03.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-03.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Tim is lit") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - James's desk](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-04.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-04.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - James's desk") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Hey Kee is not a jerk](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-05.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-05.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - Hey Kee is not a jerk") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - The producers](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-06.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-06.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - The producers") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - James's trees](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-08.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-14-Stills-08.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 14 - James's trees") ## Episode Transcript 21 secondsHello. 22 secondsWelcome to Psychonauts 2. 25 seconds\[MUSIC\] 58 secondsI'm back-- I am back just in time. 1 minute and 0 secondsZAK: I know, yeah. We don't have an Art Director. 1 minute and 2 secondsJAMES: I think we decided on the drunk. 1 minute and 4 secondsYeah, the drunk one. 1 minute and 5 secondsWhen he is sober, he is haunted. 1 minute and 6 secondsBut when he is drunk, it's, like, a drowned world. 1 minute and 8 secondsAll the ghosts get washed away, and he can tolerate it. 1 minute and 11 secondsANNA: We can't have scale things. 1 minute and 12 secondsLike, I think, I need to, like, axe that. 1 minute and 15 secondsKEE: At what point do we need to address the camera a little bit more too? 1 minute and 17 secondsTIM: Everything always looks weird every frame, 1 minute and 19 secondsbecause of the world that you've chosen. 1 minute and 20 secondsZAK: It seems like that's just a problem that's not solved yet, 1 minute and 22 secondsnot a problem that's unsolvable. 1 minute and 24 secondsTIM: It's time for Amnesia Fortnight! 1 minute and 25 secondsASIF: Because these people will go back to making games. 1 minute and 27 secondsAnd I never will. 1 minute and 28 secondsAMY: This is what you have to do. 1 minute and 29 secondsZAK: Well, no. I mean, this is what you have to do. 1 minute and 31 secondsJEREMY: Zak has ruined that for everyone forever. 1 minute and 33 secondsZAK: I know, I know. That's what I'm here for. 1 minute and 34 secondsRuining things for everybody. 1 minute and 37 secondsZAK: Uh, and then the other thing I wanted to say. 1 minute and 39 secondsUh, post AF for everyone is... 1 minute and 41 secondsUm... 1 minute and 43 secondsI would like to see also 1 minute and 44 secondsif we can start moving at a little bit faster pace. 1 minute and 46 secondsUm, I think the amount of time we spent on Bob Z conceptually is fine. 1 minute and 49 secondsLike, I don't feel like it was wasted time or anything. 1 minute and 52 secondsUm, but... 1 minute and 53 secondsI do feel like we could be making quicker decisions about stuff. 1 minute and 56 secondsAnd getting things up and running, and in the engine, 1 minute and 58 secondsand working front to back, a little faster than we have on previous levels. 2 minutes and 2 secondsUm, and hopefully people are kind of inspired 2 minutes and 4 secondsby progress during AF to make that possible. 2 minutes and 7 secondsBecause the main thing right now is not to make a perfect level, 2 minutes and 9 secondsbut to get an idea of what we are building. 2 minutes and 11 secondsZAK: I don't feel like the Psychonauts team is quite moving 2 minutes and 14 secondsas fast as I know we could be. 2 minutes and 16 secondsIt's hard to do when you are on a project 2 minutes and 18 secondsthat's, you know, three years long or whatever, 2 minutes and 20 secondsum, to keep up the pressure of decision making. 2 minutes and 24 secondsUm, and AF, you know, day by day by day. 2 minutes and 26 secondsYou see the impact of every decision you do or don't make, 2 minutes and 30 secondsbecause the turnaround time on that thing is so short 2 minutes and 32 secondsthat you are like: "Okay, I'm making a decision here, 2 minutes and 34 secondsit's gotta land two days later, 2 minutes and 36 secondsum, or the whole thing is going to go off the rails. 2 minutes and 39 secondsUm, and just in an environment 2 minutes and 41 secondswhere those time frames are much much longer, 2 minutes and 42 secondsit's harder to keep that frame of mind. 2 minutes and 45 secondsI think we were just very careful on the-- 2 minutes and 46 secondson the Helmut, and early Bob level. 2 minutes and 48 secondsStuff like: "Ugh, is this the right decision?" 2 minutes and 50 secondsUm, and so things have been a little tentative 2 minutes and 52 secondsand not moving quite at the pace that I think they could. 2 minutes and 54 secondsSo, if you feel like we are churning 2 minutes and 55 secondsbecause people are asking you to keep thinking about high level ideas, 2 minutes and 58 secondsthen we should figure out how to make some decisions and move forward. 3 minutes and 1 secondBecause I feel we've definitely... 3 minutes and 3 secondsnot made decisions on stuff and it's taken a long time. 3 minutes and 5 secondsSo, I'd rather make some quick decisions and move forward. 3 minutes and 7 secondsAnd then, if we decide we want to change it later, we can. 3 minutes and 10 secondsJAMES: For Bob Z? 3 minutes and 12 secondsYeah, it got really desperate towards the end of the concepting phase. 3 minutes and 16 secondsWe, like-- we had a bunch of brainstorm meetings 3 minutes and 18 secondswhere every brainstorm meeting we tried to leave the meeting 3 minutes and 20 secondswith a concept we all agreed on. 3 minutes and 22 secondsZAK: A withered plant world that you are, like, bringing back to life? 3 minutes and 28 secondsAnd he's been, like, cutting it back, and cutting it back, and cutting it back, 3 minutes and 30 secondsand keeping it, like, all tiny, and bonsai'd up. 3 minutes and 33 secondsJAMES: And then, like, ten minutes after the meeting we'd be like: 3 minutes and 35 seconds"No, we can't do that. That's awful." 3 minutes and 37 secondsLike, we ended one meeting thinking that, like, the dishes in a sink idea... 3 minutes and 40 secondsAnd it was just... bad. 3 minutes and 43 secondsANNA: Yeah, I think this-- this particular concept was interesting 3 minutes and 46 secondsin that it uncovered an important value for Tim for the level. 3 minutes and 50 secondsWhich is that he-- 3 minutes and 51 secondsIt was very important for him to have it be based in reality in some form. 3 minutes and 55 secondsA thing. 3 minutes and 56 secondsYeah, like, it's a-- Because for us it was like: 3 minutes and 58 seconds"Well, everyone likes the concept. Like, why can't we go forward with this?" 4 minutes and 1 secondAnd that was, like-- 4 minutes and 2 secondsThat's why we kind of had to go back to the drawing board. 4 minutes and 4 secondsBut now that that is known... 4 minutes and 6 secondsYeah, I mean, I don't think that was just a Tim value. 4 minutes and 8 secondsI think that was a-- there was a set of unarticulated values 4 minutes and 11 secondsabout what makes a good brain that we just hadn't... 4 minutes and 13 seconds-ZAK: ...wrote down. -Thought about, yep. 4 minutes and 14 secondsZAK: Um, and, in general, if something is not good 4 minutes and 16 secondswe should be able to articulate why it's not good. 4 minutes and 19 secondsAnd if we want it to be better, we should be able to articulate, like: 4 minutes and 22 seconds"What it would look like to be better?" 4 minutes and 23 secondsAnd if I can't do that, then tell me I'm being bad at my job, 4 minutes and 26 secondsand I need to figure it out. 4 minutes and 27 secondsUh, and if Tim can't do that... 4 minutes and 30 secondsit is my job to extract that from him, not your job, so. 4 minutes and 33 secondsYou are not-- none of you all are paid to be mind readers. 4 minutes and 36 secondsJAMES: There is a little bit of divining... from Tim. 4 minutes and 38 secondsZAK: There is a little bit of divining, but, like, I don't-- 4 minutes and 39 secondsI just don't want you all wasting time on that. 4 minutes and 40 seconds-Agreed. -ZAK: Yeah, so. 4 minutes and 41 secondsI just mean that there is an approval bottleneck, which is... 4 minutes and 43 secondsI will-- We will-- 4 minutes and 45 secondsRYAN: All right. 4 minutes and 46 secondsI look forward to helping you solve that. 4 minutes and 48 seconds\[MUSIC\] 4 minutes and 50 secondsLEVI: Nap time! 4 minutes and 55 seconds\[LEVI SNORES\] 4 minutes and 56 seconds-Hi! -ZAK: Hi, Andy! 4 minutes and 57 seconds-ZAK: Andy's here! -I'm here! 4 minutes and 58 secondsYesterday-- Yesterday I wasn't here. 5 minutes and 1 secondAnd today I am. Starting today. 5 minutes and 3 secondsSo, I'll be kind of rolling on, talking to people, 5 minutes and 6 secondsdoing some meetings with Tucker and Gavin. 5 minutes and 9 secondsAnd we'll see where it goes from there, 5 minutes and 10 secondsas I will now be on this project. 5 minutes and 12 seconds-Woo! -ZAK: Hurray! 5 minutes and 14 secondsSo, this is, like, bronze wire... farm or... 5 minutes and 17 secondsTIM: Sorry. 5 minutes and 18 seconds-Or bronze wire-- bronze wire mine. -Mm-hmm. 5 minutes and 21 secondsUm, so, you know, you see all these broken bridges, 5 minutes and 23 secondsand there are pieces of bronze wire. 5 minutes and 25 secondsThat's a cool idea. 5 minutes and 26 secondsThat they would, like, weave it back together using the bronze wire. 5 minutes and 29 secondsAll right, well, this broke, 5 minutes and 30 secondsbut we are going to put this here, so that people can-- 5 minutes and 32 secondsWhoa-ow! You can stand on wires right now. 5 minutes and 34 seconds-ZAK: Ah-h-h! -JAMES: I don't know why that is, but... 5 minutes and 38 secondsUh... I should have just pressed creepy button. 5 minutes and 40 secondsJAMES: Um, so, I pitched the bonsai idea right before our break. 5 minutes and 44 secondsAnd it, like-- No one ever brought it up again. 5 minutes and 45 secondsWe are just-- we are off to the races with the bonsai idea. 5 minutes and 48 secondsWhich was probably not the best way to come upon an idea for the level. 5 minutes and 52 secondsZAK: I'm, like, in a big, giant, cool, lush miniature tree. 5 minutes and 55 secondsUm, you get what it is. And I think they'll be everywhere. 5 minutes and 58 secondsThere will be the presence of the leaves, and the branches, 6 minutes and 0 secondsand those all will always be sort of, like, going down. 6 minutes and 2 secondsAnd I think the downward motion of, like, you are sort of delving further, 6 minutes and 6 secondsand further, and further into the root of this tree, and the root of his problems. 6 minutes and 10 secondsLike, that downward motion is super important. 6 minutes and 12 secondsJAMES: So, yeah, this is where we are at. 6 minutes and 14 secondsRYAN: Um, one of the things that I've noticed 6 minutes and 15 secondsas you've been running through here is that other than the rails, 6 minutes and 18 secondsum, all of the paths are very terrestrial. 6 minutes and 20 secondsLike, you are running on ground. Um, is it-- 6 minutes and 22 secondsLike, especially on the top level, 6 minutes and 23 secondsthere is, like, lots of bridges that connect everything up. 6 minutes and 26 secondsUm, are those going to be there alone? 6 minutes and 28 secondsAre there going to be action paths that connect you between places? 6 minutes and 31 secondsLike, what's your intention for how the player... 6 minutes and 32 seconds-RYAN: ...gets to move around. -JAMES: I'm not sure yet, because... 6 minutes and 35 seconds...we haven't gotten to that level of scanning yet. 6 minutes and 37 secondsZAK: It feels like the action path related stuff is just 6 minutes and 40 secondssort of, like, as the structure of the level gets more developed... 6 minutes and 43 secondsum, work on that stuff. 6 minutes and 44 secondsBecause I feel like the next big thing is sort of like: 6 minutes and 46 seconds"What is the quest flow? How do these areas connect to each other? 6 minutes and 48 secondsHow does the flow of the water work? And the flooding, and unflooding." 6 minutes and 52 secondsJAMES: And this-- this level is definitely the-- 6 minutes and 53 secondsprobably the biggest bummer level? 6 minutes and 55 secondsLike, whichever way we go with it. 6 minutes and 57 seconds-ZAK: So far. -JAMES: So far. 6 minutes and 59 seconds-We've just gotten started on the bummers. -JAMES: There is still time. 7 minutes and 2 secondsYeah, I'm trying to remember. It's been through-- 7 minutes and 4 secondsBob Z has been through a lot of different iterations. 7 minutes and 5 secondsIt was, like, a-- a Venetian village. 7 minutes and 8 secondsAnd, like, a big pillar in the sky. 7 minutes and 10 secondsAnd then-- and a terrarium. 7 minutes and 12 secondsAnd then bonsai? 7 minutes and 14 secondsI think bonsai may have come from... Levi? I don't know. 7 minutes and 18 secondsAnd the trunk is leaning on... a stack of dirty dishes. 7 minutes and 20 seconds-LEVI: Oh, dishes are back! Nice! -Use it all. 7 minutes and 23 secondsZAK: And the whole thing is deep fried! 7 minutes and 25 seconds-JAMES: What? -Oh, god. 7 minutes and 27 seconds-Oh, that was a failure. -That there was no deep fried? 7 minutes and 31 secondsI think that's my favorite one. 7 minutes and 32 secondsWhich is, like, that's a strong thing in real life, 7 minutes and 34 secondslike, a lot of things went bad on one day. 7 minutes and 36 secondsBut it feels a little, like... 7 minutes and 39 secondsuh, diluted (Dee-luted). 7 minutes and 41 secondsDai-luted. Diluted, not Dee-lu-- 7 minutes and 44 seconds-Yes. -Sorry, Dad. 7 minutes and 46 secondsNo. No, no, I was clarifying. 7 minutes and 48 secondsJAMES: Yeah, it just feels a little, like... 7 minutes and 50 secondsTIM: It's always been-- 7 minutes and 51 secondsTo me it's always been about the flooding and the unflooding. 7 minutes and 54 secondsAnd that's going to take a lot of work to get to, 7 minutes and 56 secondsto prove that out. 7 minutes and 58 secondsTIM: I booted up Wet-Dry World by the way, and started playing that... 8 minutes and 1 second-JAMES: I saw! Without me! -TIM: Just to see if it was running. 8 minutes and 3 secondsWell, I wanted to see if I can get it running 8 minutes and 4 secondsbefore I had anyone watching me. 8 minutes and 5 secondsBut it's really much harder than I remember that. 8 minutes and 7 secondsZAK: All of Mario 64 is much harder than you remember. 8 minutes and 10 secondsTIM: Because you have to be-- The camera, like, hates you. 8 minutes and 11 secondsAnd you have to be in the right place, 8 minutes and 12 secondsand then these little-- the guys are just blowing flame on you. 8 minutes and 14 seconds-TIM: But, um... -ZAK: Yeah. 8 minutes and 15 secondsTIM: There are still some-- They have the floating things, 8 minutes and 17 secondsthat you can probably imagine, that are used to solve puzzles. 8 minutes and 19 secondsThere is also, like, a big shaft of-- of-- 8 minutes and 22 secondsof mesh that has a door in the bottom. 8 minutes and 24 secondsBut you have to blow up a crate. 8 minutes and 26 secondsBut you have to have it dry, so you can blow up the crate. 8 minutes and 28 secondsAnd then you have to have it flooded, so you can swim up the unclimbable shaft. 8 minutes and 31 secondsYeah, I mean, Wet-Dry... They get a lot more mileage 8 minutes and 32 secondsout of Wet-Dry World, because Mario can swim. 8 minutes and 35 secondsJAMES: And when we were... 8 minutes and 36 secondsWe had this directive right from the beginning of Bob Z that was like: 8 minutes and 39 seconds"We want to do a water level, where you are underwater sometimes." 8 minutes and 41 secondsLike, uh, Wet-Dry World from Mario. 8 minutes and 44 secondsAnd we probably should have sat down and been like: "Is this actually fun? 8 minutes and 47 secondsDo we have the ideas we should have for this idea. 8 minutes and 50 secondsRaz can't go underwater. He can't go in the water. 8 minutes and 52 secondsJAMES: So, now, you type in whatever path you wanted to go to. 8 minutes and 55 secondsSo, let's say M-3. 8 minutes and 57 secondsUm, water path M-3. 9 minutes and 1 secondAnd the level kind of tilts appropriately. 9 minutes and 2 secondsZAK: Whoa-ow! 9 minutes and 4 secondsSo, the affected one is tilted in the correct way. 9 minutes and 6 secondsTIM: Wait, did you connect Google Docs and Unreal? 9 minutes and 8 seconds-Or are you just using that as a guide? -No, no. It's just a guide. 9 minutes and 10 secondsOh! I thought you somehow clicked 9 minutes and 12 secondson the link in Google Docs, and affected your level. 9 minutes and 14 secondsI'm like: "You guys are getting really good at Unreal!" 9 minutes and 16 secondsJAMES: Uh, so those trees-- The tree pieces don't move yet, but, yeah. 9 minutes and 19 secondsSo, I pressed B-1, so now it tilts over there. 9 minutes and 21 secondsAnd then over there. 9 minutes and 23 secondsIn reality, two of the bottom level things would be on at a time. 9 minutes and 25 secondsBut this is perfectly fine for testing, I think. 9 minutes and 28 secondsAMY: Ah, goddammit all to hell! 9 minutes and 29 secondsCan I go down here? 9 minutes and 31 secondsOh, sure, I guess. 9 minutes and 33 seconds\[IN-GAME MUSIC IS PLAYING\] 9 minutes and 36 secondsAMY: Oh! 9 minutes and 40 secondsIt's fun that you are programmer, because it's, like, 9 minutes and 42 secondsyou should fix this. 9 minutes and 44 secondsDevin. 9 minutes and 45 secondsWhoa-ow! 9 minutes and 46 secondsCool. 9 minutes and 47 secondsI really don't like the trampolines. 9 minutes and 50 secondsWait, what don't you like about the trampolines? 9 minutes and 51 secondsAMY: Like: "Oh, I'm going so fast!" 9 minutes and 53 seconds-"No, you are not!" -JAMES: Sure. 9 minutes and 54 seconds-AMY: It feels bad. -JAMES: That's true. 9 minutes and 55 seconds-It's, like, sticky. -Make it better! 9 minutes and 57 seconds-AMY: Also not me. -JAMES: You are making the game! 9 minutes and 58 secondsAMY: Also not me. 10 minutes and 0 secondsHey, Tim. 10 minutes and 2 secondsHey, guys! 10 minutes and 3 seconds\[JAMES LAUGHS\] 10 minutes and 5 seconds\[ASIF LAUGHS\] 10 minutes and 6 secondsAsif, you are not allowed to laugh when you are the cameraman! 10 minutes and 8 seconds-Yeah, listen... -Maybe when you are on camera... 10 minutes and 10 seconds...as a level designer. 10 minutes and 12 secondsAMY: Oh, god, Amy. 10 minutes and 13 seconds-AMY: That's not good. -JAMES: Don't! 10 minutes and 14 seconds-JAMES: Oh, fuck! -AMY: Fucking hell, man! 10 minutes and 16 seconds\[JAMES LAUGHS\] 10 minutes and 18 secondsIt's because it only works with static objects. 10 minutes and 23 secondsWait, this isn't a static object? 10 minutes and 25 secondsNo, it's going to move. 10 minutes and 27 seconds-JAMES: Also, all these wires... -AMY: This? 10 minutes and 28 secondsYep. 10 minutes and 31 secondsTAZIO: It turns out what James actually wants 10 minutes and 34 secondsin reality is, like, significantly more complex. 10 minutes and 37 secondsJust now I've asked James what's the intention in terms of, like, 10 minutes and 41 secondswhen it's tilting on its side, and the whole world is tilting. 10 minutes and 44 seconds-Uh, how-- how is this going to work? -GAVIN: Right. 10 minutes and 48 seconds-That was the main stuff. -Kind of there. 10 minutes and 50 secondsOkay. Well, we'll see. And we'll talk about it. 10 minutes and 53 secondsUh... Tazio is working on cool stuff. 10 minutes and 55 seconds-Yes. -So... 10 minutes and 57 secondsYou have that in your back pocket. 10 minutes and 58 secondsGAVIN: But definitely for, like, the Bob Z stuff... 11 minutes and 2 secondsUm, when it's on, like, tight kind of deadlines like that, 11 minutes and 4 secondswe should-- Anything comes out of the meeting, 11 minutes and 6 secondsit should be tasked out for those guys. 11 minutes and 7 secondsUm, so, we'll be sure to do that going forward. 11 minutes and 10 secondsUm... and then, we are moving-- 11 minutes and 12 secondsUh, production-wise we are moving into our First Playable phase. 11 minutes and 15 secondsWhich is where we try and get one level kind of to an arted, kind of pretty state. 11 minutes and 21 secondsWhere we can play through it with as many features as we can get in. 11 minutes and 24 secondsHopefully testing out our cinematic pipelines, 11 minutes and 26 secondsdialogue, stuff like that. 11 minutes and 28 secondsMm-hmm! 11 minutes and 29 seconds-Lots of planning for that going on too. -Cool. 11 minutes and 32 secondsWe wanted to get together and talk about First Playable stuff. 11 minutes and 33 secondsWe should choose what we are doing very carefully. 11 minutes and 35 secondsUh, because I do think it's important to get the game all working in one place. 11 minutes and 39 secondsHowever, I think it's important for us 11 minutes and 40 secondsto get the game successfully working all in one place. 11 minutes and 43 secondsAnd, also, increase the team's, uh... 11 minutes and 47 secondsmomentum and delivery... 11 minutes and 49 secondsaccuracy, I guess. 11 minutes and 50 secondsAnd people are committed to it, and it's not: "Hey, we need you to do 11 minutes and 53 secondsthis amount of work in this amount of time. Do your best!" 11 minutes and 54 secondsBecause that's what we are doing kind of right now. 11 minutes and 56 secondsAnd people are doing their best, and we are underdelivering. 11 minutes and 58 secondsSo, um... 11 minutes and 59 secondsUh, because we will be dogpiling this thing, 12 minutes and 2 secondsit would be really good if we could just knock the shit out of it. 12 minutes and 5 secondsSo, I've been thinking-- 12 minutes and 6 secondsI think we should take a whack at the actual, like... 12 minutes and 7 secondsFlow. 12 minutes and 8 secondsWhat the game would be saying to you at that point. 12 minutes and 10 seconds-Even though it's going to change. -Right. 12 minutes and 12 secondsBecause that will help us see if it works, and... 12 minutes and 14 secondsSo, yeah, even in the little First Playable, 12 minutes and 16 secondsI feel like you can tell a little story. 12 minutes and 17 seconds-Because it's going to be a demo. -Right. 12 minutes and 19 secondsIt's going to end with an explosion of some kind. 12 minutes and 22 secondsWe'll throw a car at your face. 12 minutes and 23 secondsUh... I mean... 12 minutes and 24 secondsEven, like, Train Simulator, Microsoft would be like: 12 minutes and 26 seconds"Can you end this demo with an explosion? 12 minutes and 27 seconds"Like, sure." \[TIM VOCALIZES EXPLOSION\] 12 minutes and 31 secondsWhat's the occasion? 12 minutes and 33 secondsTIM: I'm really excited, because 12 minutes and 34 secondswe have been doing pre-production for so long on the game. 12 minutes and 37 secondsAnd everything has, like, been planning, and building the team, 12 minutes and 40 secondsgetting things organized, and doing roughs and whiteboxes. 12 minutes and 43 secondsAnd we've done some art tests, but this is, like... 12 minutes and 46 secondsThis is the first asset-- this large... environment 12 minutes and 50 secondsthat we are building that we are not going to throw away. 12 minutes and 51 secondsI think-- yeah, I think we should do an opening shot. 12 minutes and 53 secondsThe thing starts, Raz goes: "Whoa-ow!" 12 minutes and 55 secondsAnd then, he looks around. 12 minutes and 56 seconds-There is an intern, right? -Gotta write that down. 12 minutes and 58 secondsWhoa-ow? 12 minutes and 59 secondsTIM: Like, this is-- The game is going to have this in it. 13 minutes and 1 secondThis is the game. So, we are now... 13 minutes and 2 secondsWe are making the game, and it's going to be polished. 13 minutes and 4 secondsLike, a lot of stuff, you know, you rough in, it's not polished. 13 minutes and 6 secondsBut this time, we are going to, like, make Raz move right. 13 minutes and 9 secondsAnd we are going to make his psychic powers look right. 13 minutes and 11 secondsAnd we are going to make the world look right, and play right. 13 minutes and 13 secondsAnd it's going to be fun. 13 minutes and 14 seconds\[MUSIC\] 13 minutes and 21 secondsASIF: Ryan asked me to help out... 13 minutes and 23 seconds...as I had the time to. 13 minutes and 25 secondsUm, like, whenever I could. 13 minutes and 27 secondsUh, just, like, learning, like... 13 minutes and 29 seconds...basic whiteboxing stuff, 13 minutes and 30 secondsand placing assets, and things like that. 13 minutes and 33 secondsAnd that was mostly just making, like, test levels 13 minutes and 36 secondsand, like, metrics levels basically, 13 minutes and 39 secondsso that designers could have, like, a... 13 minutes and 43 secondsa universal set of numbers to work from for all that kind of stuff 13 minutes and 46 secondsbefore they started building levels. 13 minutes and 48 seconds\[MUSIC\] 13 minutes and 50 secondsHave you been doing stuff on Psychonauts since then? 13 minutes and 52 secondsWell, no one tells me anything. 13 minutes and 54 secondsWhat have you been working on? 13 minutes and 57 secondsWhat? No one showed me? 13 minutes and 59 secondsWhy didn't you tell me? 14 minutes and 1 secondLike a metrics room? You are making a metrics room? 14 minutes and 2 secondsASIF: Mm-hmm. 14 minutes and 3 secondsLike: "You got some good ideas, kid. Come make a metrics room." 14 minutes and 6 secondsAnd then, Asif will be getting his next task this week. 14 minutes and 8 seconds-ZAK: And move on to that task. -Yes. 14 minutes and 11 seconds\[CLAPPING\] 14 minutes and 12 secondsZAK: That's everybody! Thank you! 14 minutes and 15 secondsOh, that's awesome! I didn't know you were doing that! 14 minutes and 17 secondsApparently Asif is on the project. 14 minutes and 19 secondsOkay. 14 minutes and 20 secondsOne of the project leaders from Amnesia Fortnight did... 14 minutes and 23 secondsa really solid job. 14 minutes and 25 secondsAnd so we brought him on the project 14 minutes and 28 secondsand gave him some work that we can cut later. 14 minutes and 30 secondsI look forward to seeing your amazing jumps. 14 minutes and 33 seconds\[CHUCKLES\] 14 minutes and 34 secondsASIF: There are some pretty sweet jumps in there. 14 minutes and 36 seconds\[MUSIC\] 14 minutes and 41 secondsZAK: Even with everybody dogpiled on something content-wise, 14 minutes and 45 secondswe still are not the fastest moving team in the world. 14 minutes and 48 secondsUm, and the brain team is kind of still getting their feet wet, 14 minutes and 51 secondsand figuring all that stuff out. 14 minutes and 53 secondsShould we be doing a small section of Hub 14 minutes and 56 secondswhich compartmentalizes a little better. 14 minutes and 58 secondsUm, because Bob Z is hard to compartmentalize, 15 minutes and 0 secondsbecause it's this big, open level. 15 minutes and 1 secondAnd it would be the two most senior level developers. 15 minutes and 4 secondsJust, like, kicking the crap out of it. 15 minutes and 7 secondsAnd sort of showing, like, what success looks like for that. 15 minutes and 11 secondsWhat do people think? 15 minutes and 12 secondsIs that the right thing to do? 15 minutes and 14 secondsLike, doing the Hub section as opposed to the Bob Z section. 15 minutes and 17 secondsGEOFF: My biggest concern with Bob Z is that they still don't know 15 minutes and 20 secondsthe primary sort of gameplay mechanic. 15 minutes and 23 secondsHow it's going to actually impact the level, 15 minutes and 26 secondsin terms of the water flowing through there. 15 minutes and 28 secondsWhich they should figure out during whitebox. 15 minutes and 30 secondsAnd I have faith they will figure it out, but, like, we don't-- 15 minutes and 32 secondsWe don't know the impact of it in terms of cost on the team, so. 15 minutes and 36 secondsGEOFF: Yeah. 15 minutes and 37 secondsI think the-- the Quarry itself is just... 15 minutes and 40 secondsWe'd have to build the HQ... 15 minutes and 42 secondsAnd we still don't know what that effing thing looks like, so. 15 minutes and 44 secondsI think that's something that would be a big hurdle. 15 minutes and 47 seconds-ZAK: Let's figure that out. -GEOFF: Yeah. 15 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: Um, I think probably it's at the point 15 minutes and 51 secondswhere, uh, Levi should be able to spare some time from Bob Z. 15 minutes and 55 secondsGEOFF: Okay, I'll talk to Levi then. 15 minutes and 57 secondsLike a Rubik's cube. 15 minutes and 59 secondsYeah, this is more, like a... 16 minutes and 1 secondWhat's it called? The museum? 16 minutes and 3 secondsGEOFF: I really like this one. 16 minutes and 5 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 16 minutes and 6 secondsGEOFF: This is partially submerged, right? 16 minutes and 9 secondsIt's still in the water, right? 16 minutes and 10 secondsMaybe the water line comes across here, so you can see it extending down. 16 minutes and 13 secondsAnd then, at the end, the whole thing detaches and flies away. 16 minutes and 16 secondsThey are like: "Fuck this quarry." \[TIM VOCALIZES FLYING AWAY\] 16 minutes and 19 secondsZAK: Yep. 16 minutes and 21 secondsIt does. 16 minutes and 22 secondsAnd the other thing is, like... 16 minutes and 23 secondsThe Bob Z level team has been thinking about their level being the-- 16 minutes and 26 secondsthe one that's going to be focused for the... First Playable. 16 minutes and 29 secondsZAK: We've changed minds. 16 minutes and 30 secondsYeah, that-- that, I mean, I'll talk-- We can talk to them. 16 minutes and 33 secondsI'm not worried about that one way or the other. 16 minutes and 34 secondsWe are going to do what's right for the project. 16 minutes and 35 seconds-KEE: Okay. -Um, that doesn't-- 16 minutes and 37 secondsYeah, that's not-- 16 minutes and 38 secondsThere is a component of that which is like: 16 minutes and 40 seconds"I would rather have the more senior team on the hook for this." 16 minutes and 42 secondsUm... 16 minutes and 43 secondsThat I would not communicate to them, 16 minutes and 45 secondsbecause I don't think that's a very particularly great-- 16 minutes and 47 secondsThat doesn't help them in any way, shape, or form. 16 minutes and 49 secondsUm, uh, but I think there is a plenty of other reasons to do it... 16 minutes and 52 secondsum, that-- that make sense. 16 minutes and 54 secondsOkay. 16 minutes and 56 seconds-Sounds good. -All right. 16 minutes and 57 secondsKEE: I'm pretty excited to see some of these, uh, systems that's on here. 17 minutes and 0 secondsJust like: "Oh, we've been needing to do that, we needed to do that." 17 minutes and 1 secondIt's going to be really good to see them online. 17 minutes and 4 seconds\[MUSIC\] 17 minutes and 5 secondsZAK: And... we would be building 17 minutes and 8 secondsthe, uh, end of the initial Quarry demo that never got built. 17 minutes and 11 seconds-That's true. -\[LAUGHTER\] 17 minutes and 12 secondsKEE: So, do you want TK-able tightropes? 17 minutes and 14 secondsZAK: Uh... we should still have them. 17 minutes and 17 seconds-ZAK: They are totally broken now, right? -KEE: Probably. 17 minutes and 21 secondsRYAN: Yeah, they are. They definitely are. 17 minutes and 25 secondsZAK: Uh... move that over to now, 17 minutes and 27 secondswe are going to start talking about doing the Hub. 17 minutes and 30 secondsUh, and first pass at basic economy stuff. 17 minutes and 34 secondsLike pick up and, uh, loot drops. 17 minutes and 36 secondsUm, getting a version of the quest system in. 17 minutes and 39 secondsUh, getting, um, one cutscene. 17 minutes and 42 secondsTBD cutscene with just scratch dialogue in, 17 minutes and 44 secondsand functional, and triggered from the game. 17 minutes and 46 secondsTIM: And our First Playable on the first game was kind of a disaster. 17 minutes and 50 secondsLike, we-- we got a really early version of Gloria's Theater up, 17 minutes and 54 secondsbut we had, like, a little bit of rolling on the ball done. 17 minutes and 57 secondsYou know, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. 17 minutes and 59 secondsAnd then we had some enemies. 18 minutes and 1 secondAnd, um, our whole take on the pacing of everything was just really off. 18 minutes and 5 secondsLike, we made the ball really, really big, and it moved really slow. 18 minutes and 8 secondsBecause that was the original version of it. 18 minutes and 9 secondsAnd then, the PSI Blast was really unsatisfying. 18 minutes and 13 secondsAnd the enemies were just the little flower girls. 18 minutes and 15 seconds\[MUSIC\] 18 minutes and 16 secondsMicrosoft wanted concept pitches, so we pitched it to people, 18 minutes and 19 secondsand they loved the concept, and they are like: "Show us the game!" 18 minutes and 21 secondsAnd then, everyone was really happy, and then we turned on the game, 18 minutes and 23 secondsand you could just see, everyone was just kind of sour and like: 18 minutes and 25 seconds"This is not what you said this was going to be." 18 minutes and 27 secondsWe just-- just felt it. 18 minutes and 29 secondsWe just felt it, you know, failing in that First Playable. 18 minutes and 33 secondsSo, already the game is in a much better shape than that. 18 minutes and 35 secondsOriginally we had talked about doing this in the Bob Z, uh, level. 18 minutes and 39 secondsUm, and we were going to do that up until, like, yesterday, basically. 18 minutes and 43 secondsIt has all kinds of crazy water gameplay, 18 minutes and 45 secondsuh, that needs a little bit more time to bake. 18 minutes and 47 secondsAnd I think if we tried to polish that up in the next two months, um... 18 minutes and 50 secondsI don't think we'd be successful. 18 minutes and 51 seconds\[MUSIC\] 18 minutes and 54 secondsJAMES: Uh... it's still... 18 minutes and 57 secondsIt's a toughie. 18 minutes and 58 secondsIt's a tough cookie. 19 minutes and 0 secondsBut I think we are making progress. Right, Jeremy? 19 minutes and 3 seconds-JEREMY: What? -Yep. 19 minutes and 4 secondsWhat? 19 minutes and 6 secondsYeah, I mean, I don't have any technical advice. 19 minutes and 9 secondsIt's just-- it needs to feel miniature. 19 minutes and 11 secondsKRISTEN: Is it supposed to be bark? 19 minutes and 13 secondsIt's supposed to be the surface of a bonsai tree. 19 minutes and 14 seconds-So, like, macro photography. -So, we are kind of on the same page then. 19 minutes and 19 secondsJAMES: Yeah, I mean-- So, this all takes place in a bonsai tree. 19 minutes and 22 secondsUh... and as we got further into whiteboxing, 19 minutes and 24 secondswe discovered that maybe everyone wasn't sold 19 minutes and 27 secondson the miniaturization stuff. 19 minutes and 30 secondsSo, what we are working on right now is kind of a material test world, 19 minutes and 35 secondsto test out all that stuff, 19 minutes and 36 secondsand make sure everyone loves the way it looks in action. 19 minutes and 39 secondsBecause concept art wasn't doing it. 19 minutes and 43 secondsUh... 19 minutes and 44 secondsLuckily, I don't really have to worry about that. 19 minutes and 47 secondsIt's, like, a Jeremy problem. 19 minutes and 49 secondsJEREMY: What? 19 minutes and 50 secondsWait, when you say actual turning, you mean, like, Unreal turning? 19 minutes and 52 seconds-GEOFF: Yes. -ZAK: For the platform parts. 19 minutes and 55 secondsGEOFF: For the platform parts. Because that's the-- 19 minutes and 57 secondsThat's the, like, density of detail that you are going to need. 19 minutes and 59 secondsJEREMY: Yeah, uh... 20 minutes and 1 secondI guess I'm-- 20 minutes and 2 secondsI'm kind of out of my comfort zone right now. 20 minutes and 4 secondsJust because, like, I haven't, like, done art in so long. 20 minutes and 6 secondsZAK: Uh, hey. So, can... anyone answer this question? 20 minutes and 10 secondsUh, it is... 20 minutes and 11 secondsCan we open up the material test room 20 minutes and 13 secondsand start reviewing stuff in context there? 20 minutes and 15 secondsOkay, so let's just take a look at that. 20 minutes and 16 secondsSo, the floor texture thing is the one of the big things that you are working on. 20 minutes and 19 secondsSo, like, the major thing to look at right now is 20 minutes and 21 secondsthe actual little porcelain buildings. 20 minutes and 23 secondsUh, which are not quite there. 20 minutes and 26 secondsYeah, I mean, it also just does not read as a miniature. 20 minutes and 29 secondsLike, the exaggeration of, like, the glaze. 20 minutes and 32 secondsThe bulbousness of the glaze, and the fineness of the-- of the cracks... 20 minutes and 35 secondsLike, it does not-- It does not read as small at all. 20 minutes and 39 secondsOkay. 20 minutes and 42 secondsJAMES: Uh, yeah, the level just feels like it has too many scales. 20 minutes and 44 secondsSo, you have, like-- bonsai tree is, like, a miniature tree. 20 minutes and 47 secondsBut then we are doing, like, a miniature Raz on a miniature tree. 20 minutes and 49 secondsAnd then there are these porcelain figures which are... 20 minutes and 52 secondsminiature even for porcelain figures. 20 minutes and 54 secondsAnd then, there is big buildings 20 minutes and 56 secondsthat are, like, bigger than they would be in real life. 20 minutes and 58 secondsIt was just-- there are too many scale references going on. 21 minutes and 1 secondSo we are trying really hard to get it down to one, 21 minutes and 4 secondsso it's super understandable. 21 minutes and 5 secondsAnd that's what Jeremy, and Levi, 21 minutes and 7 secondsand Tazio are working on for the most part. 21 minutes and 9 secondsZAK: Um, the thing that we are talking about doing 21 minutes and 10 secondsfor, like, this kind of big town square, 21 minutes and 12 secondsis as though it was like a chunk of the tree where the bark's worn away, 21 minutes and 15 secondsand some dirt has settled there. 21 minutes and 16 secondsSo, it's a mix of... 21 minutes and 17 secondsI mean, Levi did a paintover, um... 21 minutes and 20 secondsthat we can look at real quick actually. 21 minutes and 21 secondsUh, just to get Tim on board with where we are. 21 minutes and 26 secondsI will never be on board with this idea. 21 minutes and 28 secondsI'm trying-- I'm just creating an arc for the documentary. 21 minutes and 31 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 21 minutes and 33 secondsZAK: Yeah, so it's the idea that it's kind of, like... 21 minutes and 35 secondsTIM: Pebble. 21 minutes and 36 seconds-ZAK: Yeah. -That is a cool rock. 21 minutes and 38 secondsOkay, but yeah, I mean-- I think-- 21 minutes and 39 secondsI think it's starting to get really, really cool. 21 minutes and 41 secondsAnd actually, do you have the-- the water droplet on your machine? 21 minutes and 44 seconds-TAZIO: Yes. -ZAK: Just to-- 21 minutes and 45 secondsZAK: I just want to show it to Tim real quick. 21 minutes and 47 secondsZAK: And then it goes... 21 minutes and 50 secondsTIM: That's neat! Look at that! 21 minutes and 51 secondsTAZIO: It's like in the-- in the Hub 1 test world. 21 minutes and 55 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 21 minutes and 57 secondsZAK: All right, maybe it needs a little less angular dampening. 21 minutes and 59 secondsTAZIO: Uh, it's fine, it's fine. 22 minutes and 1 secondPshh! 22 minutes and 3 seconds-TIM: That seems fun. -ZAK: Proof of concept. 22 minutes and 5 secondsTIM: You trap people in it. 22 minutes and 6 secondsYou just drown people. 22 minutes and 7 seconds-Small people just drown in it. -ZAK: You put it right over their head. 22 minutes and 9 secondsThey are like... 22 minutes and 10 secondsThat's neat. 22 minutes and 12 secondsTAZIO: In order for, like, the level to sort of function 22 minutes and 15 secondsand read as what it's trying to be, we needed a little bit more... 22 minutes and 18 secondsuh, sort of advanced structure. 22 minutes and 20 secondsSomething that was communicating the bonsai-ness of the level, which was-- 22 minutes and 24 secondswhich was pretty key. 22 minutes and 25 secondsLike, essentially some weird problems that we had to solve. 22 minutes and 30 secondsUm, and I got involved pretty early on to start looking at-- 22 minutes and 34 secondsinto sort of, uh, specifically water effects. 22 minutes and 37 secondsBecause we knew that we wanted water to be a really big part of that level. 22 minutes and 41 secondsSo, one of the things was-- 22 minutes and 43 secondsThere is this feature in Unreal called Distance Fields. 22 minutes and 45 secondsWe can use it to deform this sphere, 22 minutes and 46 secondsso it feels like it has surface tension, and it's reacting to the-- to the ground. 22 minutes and 50 secondsYour eye just accepts it as: "Oh, yeah, that's just totally water. 22 minutes and 53 secondsThat's the way water works." 22 minutes and 55 secondsAnd you can see... yeah. 22 minutes and 57 secondsWhy am I telling you guys how to break it. 22 minutes and 59 secondsBut you can see it also reacts a little bit poorly 23 minutes and 1 secondto things being in the foreground. 23 minutes and 2 secondsSo, you can see... like, around Raz, this little halo. 23 minutes and 5 secondsBecause he is totally in that map. 23 minutes and 7 secondsPAUL: Oh, okay. 23 minutes and 8 secondsIt almost looks like you are seeing a reflection of him in there though. 23 minutes and 10 secondsTAZIO: Yeah, totally, right? 23 minutes and 12 seconds\[CHUCKLES\] 23 minutes and 13 secondsI'm-- I'm still uncertain. 23 minutes and 15 secondsBecause we are not, like-- 23 minutes and 16 secondsWe are not at all finished with the way water is going to function in the level. 23 minutes and 19 secondsAnd there is still, like, a lot of unanswered questions. 23 minutes and 22 secondsLEE: Yeah, so... 23 minutes and 23 secondsA couple of things, um, that jump out at me. 23 minutes and 27 secondsWhen you are trying to sell... small scale... 23 minutes and 30 secondsSo, looking at that, say... 23 minutes and 32 seconds-I'm assuming that's wood. -Mm-hmm. 23 minutes and 33 secondsEven though I'm sure there is microscopic wood grain 23 minutes and 35 secondsthat if you were tiny, you would see, 23 minutes and 37 secondsour human brains just assume that the wood grain will be at a bigger scale. 23 minutes and 40 secondsLike that's to me is, like, tiles-- 23 minutes and 42 secondsLike, I'd expect to see a wood knot, like you would get on a board. 23 minutes and 45 secondsBut it'd be giant, right? 23 minutes and 46 seconds-GEOFF: Need a pen? -Where'd it go? 23 minutes and 49 secondsGEOFF: Here. 23 minutes and 50 secondsThanks. 23 minutes and 51 secondsJEREMY: Well... 23 minutes and 53 seconds\[JEREMY LAUGHS\] 23 minutes and 54 secondsRight now... 23 minutes and 55 secondsRight now-- It's kind of scary right now, because... 23 minutes and 58 secondswe have a lot of shit to do, and we don't have a full team to do it. 24 minutes and 1 secondIt's just, like-- I guess, like, finding people... 24 minutes and 5 seconds...is hard. 24 minutes and 6 secondsLike, we don't have an Art Director yet. 24 minutes and 7 secondsThat's really crazy to me! 24 minutes and 9 secondsI mean, that's one of the cool things about working here is, like... 24 minutes and 11 secondsThey don't just hire people. 24 minutes and 14 secondsI mean, like, it's kind of-- it's tough, 24 minutes and 16 secondsbecause, like, we don't have the people we need, but also... 24 minutes and 19 secondsWhen they do hire someone, like, they are fucking-- 24 minutes and 21 secondsthere is no problems working with them, 24 minutes and 22 secondsbecause they went through that whole vetting process. 24 minutes and 25 secondsLike, I worked at EA before. 24 minutes and 27 secondsAnd they would just hire, like, 24 minutes and 28 secondsthe best people to do the best job or whatever. 24 minutes and 30 secondsBut, man, sometimes it was so hard working with those people. 24 minutes and 32 secondsLike, we'd go to lunch and just bitch about people the whole time. 24 minutes and 36 secondsThey just want this fucking awesome guy doing this VFX. 24 minutes and 40 secondsBut then you have to fucking working with other people, and then it's... 24 minutes and 42 secondsIt becomes a nightmare. 24 minutes and 44 secondsYeah, so. I mean, it's kind of-- 24 minutes and 46 secondsIt's tough, because we don't have the people we need. 24 minutes and 49 secondsBut it's also nice that when we do get someone, 24 minutes and 51 secondsthen they are fucking awesome to work with. 24 minutes and 53 secondsSo, that's cool. 24 minutes and 54 secondsThere is-- there are definitely times 24 minutes and 56 secondswhere you can feel that we are missing an Art Director. 24 minutes and 59 secondsBut, you know, there is a lot of... 25 minutes and 1 secondThere is a lot of talented artists in the studio, 25 minutes and 3 secondsand a lot of, like, really good opinions. 25 minutes and 4 secondsYou do... 25 minutes and 6 secondsAt some point you do kind of want to stop stubbing temporary assets, 25 minutes and 9 secondsand you want to be able to say: 25 minutes and 10 seconds"This is-- this is, like, at least close to where we are headed." 25 minutes and 15 secondsTAZIO: And then, just today I added this very important feature, 25 minutes and 18 secondswhere you can... 25 minutes and 20 seconds-ZAK: Bloop! -TAZIO: Bloop! 25 minutes and 22 secondsGlue them together, and if I can aim... 25 minutes and 24 secondsalso break them apart. 25 minutes and 26 secondsANNA: Aren't you afraid of water? 25 minutes and 28 secondsBut there is surface tension, so it doesn't hurt you until it bursts. 25 minutes and 31 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 25 minutes and 32 secondsCome on! 25 minutes and 36 secondsZAK: So! Uh, Quarry. 25 minutes and 39 secondsRYAN: Yeah, it's very, very bright. 25 minutes and 40 secondsIt's really warm out here, I guess. I don't know. 25 minutes and 42 secondsZAK: Also, trampolines with sound are so much better. 25 minutes and 45 seconds-ZAK: Look at that! -RYAN: Yep. 25 minutes and 46 secondsVideo game just happened there. That was great. 25 minutes and 48 secondsAnd then there is a button. 25 minutes and 49 secondsRYAN: Hmm. 25 minutes and 50 secondsOh my god! We have actual interactivity? 25 minutes and 53 seconds-ZAK: Wha-a-at! -RYAN: This is insane! 25 minutes and 55 secondsRYAN: And the ladder doesn't appropriately update, 25 minutes and 57 secondsand the tightrope doesn't either, so, we'll fix those things... 26 minutes and 0 seconds-RYAN: ...and make them better. -ZAK: Look, it's fine. We fixed it. 26 minutes and 2 seconds-ZAK: That's not good. -RYAN: That's jumping. 26 minutes and 4 secondsRYAN: That just happened! I've never seen that before. 26 minutes and 5 secondsThis is exciting! New features happening all the time. 26 minutes and 9 secondsZAK: Oh, breakables! 26 minutes and 10 secondsRYAN: And we just broke a thing, and got experience out of it. 26 minutes and 14 secondsZAK: Aaron did breakables and loot tables. 26 minutes and 16 secondsSo, those things drop stuff that you can pick up, 26 minutes and 18 secondsand they break, and we'll be able to make more breakable stuff. 26 minutes and 20 secondsRYAN: Uh, that's a bad camera, but it will be a lot better in the future. 26 minutes and 24 secondsAARON: Cameras are tricky. 26 minutes and 26 seconds\[AARON CHUCKLES\] 26 minutes and 27 secondsUm... 26 minutes and 28 secondsYeah, so... 26 minutes and 29 secondsIt was kind of a joke for a while on the team... 26 minutes and 32 secondsabout designating, like, what-- 26 minutes and 33 secondswhat programmer was gonna end up working on the camera system, 26 minutes and 36 secondsbecause nobody really wanted to. 26 minutes and 37 secondsThe only thing is that stuff gets really hard really fast. 26 minutes and 41 secondsLike, trying to do some procedural, like: "Oh, it always leads the player..." 26 minutes and 44 secondsI'm-- I'm aware it is a complicated thing. 26 minutes and 47 secondsBecause camera systems are notoriously difficult to do well. 26 minutes and 51 secondsIf a camera is done really well, you don't really notice it. 26 minutes and 53 secondsPAUL: Unreal comes with a third-person camera out of the box. 26 minutes and 56 secondsAARON: It does. 26 minutes and 57 secondsIt comes with a third-person follow camera, 26 minutes and 58 secondsbut it's very, very simple. 26 minutes and 59 secondsIt doesn't really handle any of the weird situations you get into. 27 minutes and 3 secondsIt pretty much just says: "Hey, look. Here is a character. 27 minutes and 6 secondsWe are going to look at the character and be a certain distance away." 27 minutes and 8 secondsAnd, like, that's it. 27 minutes and 9 secondsIf the game is moving the camera around when the player didn't expect it, 27 minutes and 12 secondsthey might suddenly jump off the side that they weren't planning on. 27 minutes and 15 secondsSo, it's kind of interesting. 27 minutes and 17 secondsThere is a lot of pressure to do well, but it's sort of a thankless job. 27 minutes and 20 seconds-Cameras are complicated. -ZAK: They are, they are. 27 minutes and 22 secondsZAK: They are complicated. 27 minutes and 24 seconds\[MUSIC\] 27 minutes and 25 secondsAARON: I made a spring-based camera system, 27 minutes and 27 secondsand quickly found that that was likely going to make people nauseous, 27 minutes and 30 secondsand have other problems, so I'm going to scrap that. 27 minutes and 36 secondsAARON: I promise... 27 minutes and 37 secondsIf you want to take a look at it, I'll show you. 27 minutes and 39 secondsI promise it would-- it would be unpleasant. 27 minutes and 41 seconds\[ANNA LAUGHS\] 27 minutes and 43 secondsAARON: So, here for example you can see 27 minutes and 45 secondshow when Raz jumps there is that white sphere that follows him up. 27 minutes and 47 secondsPAUL: Yeah. 27 minutes and 48 secondsAARON: And it shows that his position is moving, 27 minutes and 50 secondsbut we are not moving the camera here. 27 minutes and 51 secondsThis is a good example of not trying to make people sick. 27 minutes and 54 secondsWhere if you jumped, 27 minutes and 55 secondsand every single time you jumped, the camera kind of jumped with you. 27 minutes and 57 secondsThat would get really, really old really quickly. 28 minutes and 0 secondsUm, this is where we want to give a wider view. 28 minutes and 2 secondsWhen you are climbing, it would be kind of annoying 28 minutes and 4 secondsto have the camera in so close. 28 minutes and 5 secondsThere is the camera manager that I wrote doing a smooth interpolation 28 minutes and 8 secondsbetween two different places. 28 minutes and 11 secondsAnd I also know it's, you know, it's a big responsibility. 28 minutes and 13 secondsIt's an important part of the game. 28 minutes and 14 secondsAnd so, I want to-- I want to do a good job at it. 28 minutes and 16 secondsAnd I want to be able to put the game out and not have to worry about reviewers 28 minutes and 19 secondsor, you know, people playing the game complaining 28 minutes and 21 secondsthat it's difficult to control the camera. 28 minutes and 26 secondsWhat? 28 minutes and 28 secondsPAUL: That notebook is cool. 28 minutes and 29 secondsAlmost done! 28 minutes and 31 secondsRemember this notebook? I got it on Broken Age, but I just... 28 minutes and 34 secondsGotta finish it. I haven't been doing enough freewriting. 28 minutes and 36 seconds\[TIM HUMS\] 28 minutes and 39 secondsIt's cool how much platforming stuff-- it's already up and running. 28 minutes and 43 secondsDeveloping platformers is, like, a million tiny, little things. 28 minutes and 45 secondsAnd so, uh, until you get them all done, 28 minutes and 48 secondswhich is, like, the end of the project, 28 minutes and 49 secondsit just never-- it's always kind of hard to get around, 28 minutes and 53 secondsand it feels kind of chunky. 28 minutes and 54 secondsBut this feels pretty good! 28 minutes and 55 secondsLike, you can go from piece to piece... 28 minutes and 59 secondswithout getting stuck in the geometry, and... 29 minutes and 5 secondsHmm, I don't know if I'm supposed to go down here. 29 minutes and 11 seconds\[TIM GRUNTS\] 29 minutes and 14 secondsI don't like that popping PSI Balloon. 29 minutes and 17 secondsIn the first game it lasts forever, 29 minutes and 18 secondsand I understand why that's a problem for platforming. 29 minutes and 20 secondsI just think it's not fun right now that it doesn't last at all. 29 minutes and 23 secondsMaybe because I've been playing a lot of Zelda, 29 minutes and 25 secondsand I paraglide everywhere. 29 minutes and 28 secondsJust because it's more fun. 29 minutes and 30 secondsTIM: I mean, we feel-- I feel, you know, the-- 29 minutes and 33 secondsThe First Playable level is a real world level, 29 minutes and 34 secondsand the platforming feels really good in it, 29 minutes and 36 secondsso I feel good about that. 29 minutes and 37 secondsSo, we just have to... 29 minutes and 39 secondsyou know, hit that milestone now with a mental world. 29 minutes and 43 secondsWe don't have that yet. We don't have a mental world 29 minutes and 45 secondswhere you are feeling like you are having surreal fun yet. 29 minutes and 47 secondsThey are all very, you know-- 29 minutes and 49 secondsBob Z is still in the whitebox phase, and, um, has iterated a lot. 29 minutes and 53 secondsAnd that's the farthest ahead of all of the mental worlds. 29 minutes and 56 seconds\[MUSIC\] 29 minutes and 59 secondsJAMES: So, this level ended up being... 30 minutes and 1 secondsignificantly bigger than Helmut's level. 30 minutes and 4 secondsBecause this is kind of the footprint of the level proper. 30 minutes and 8 secondsAnd then... 30 minutes and 9 secondsThese are all the buildings that you go into in the level, so... 30 minutes and 12 secondsKind of accidentally made, like, six levels. 30 minutes and 16 secondsJAMES: I guess. But if the idea is 30 minutes and 17 secondsthat we are trying to get rid of, like, an entire set... 30 minutes and 20 seconds\[JAMES' VOICE BECOMES MORE DISTANT\] 30 minutes and 23 secondsJAMES: ...and we'd still want the optional stuff. 30 minutes and 26 secondsRYAN: You know, yes it will! 30 minutes and 27 secondsJAMES: Well, here is the thing. 30 minutes and 29 secondsWell, here is the thing is that, like... 30 minutes and 31 secondsI don't think it makes sense to do the water before we have the branches 30 minutes and 34 secondsAnd the branches aren't going to get done until... 30 minutes and 35 secondsLike, Jeremy has a lot of work to do. 30 minutes and 37 secondsJAMES: Yeah, because the alternative is, like, 30 minutes and 39 secondsjust waiting for them to finish what they are doing. 30 minutes and 41 secondsWhich isn't really an option. 30 minutes and 43 secondsThere is the possibility that... 30 minutes and 45 secondswhatever we land on will, like, drastically change the... 30 minutes and 48 secondsshape and geometry of the level. 30 minutes and 50 secondsSo, that's kind of terrifying, but... 30 minutes and 54 secondsIt's-- it's, uh-- 30 minutes and 56 secondsIt's weird doing it from behind. 30 minutes and 58 secondsWhere I'm, like, still working on something 30 minutes and 59 secondsthat I feel like is going to be cut. 31 minutes and 2 secondsDon't laugh at me, Emily! 31 minutes and 4 secondsWhy are you laughing?! 31 minutes and 6 seconds\[EMILY LAUGHS\] 31 minutes and 7 secondsShut up, guys! 31 minutes and 9 secondsRYAN: We don't-- we don't just get to... keep taking time infinitely. 31 minutes and 12 seconds(I know.) 31 minutes and 13 secondsRYAN: There is a point where we have to draw a line. 31 minutes and 14 seconds(Okay.) 31 minutes and 15 secondsA big part of it is... 31 minutes and 16 secondsEverybody thinks it's overscoped. 31 minutes and 19 secondsWe just don't know what to do about that. 31 minutes and 21 secondsZAK: Well, we know it's overscoped. 31 minutes and 23 seconds-ZAK: We need some data on how much. -RYAN: How much, yeah. 31 minutes and 26 secondsZAK: So that we can cut intelligently, and not just be like: 31 minutes and 28 seconds-ZAK: "It's too big! Chop it all up!" -Sure, sure, sure. 31 minutes and 30 secondsAt what point do we kind of go: 31 minutes and 33 seconds"All right, Bob Z is representation-ish. Let's get moving on the next one." 31 minutes and 38 secondsANDY: Each level is its own different thing. 31 minutes and 43 secondsAnd some come together quickly, 31 minutes and 44 secondsand some don't. 31 minutes and 46 secondsSometimes you get an idea, 31 minutes and 47 secondsand it takes you getting all the way-- two-thirds of that idea before you go: 31 minutes and 50 seconds"Oh, this isn't going to work. It's just not going to work. 31 minutes and 52 secondsWe thought we could have this thing that would look this way at this point. 31 minutes and 55 secondsAnd it took us all the way getting there to realize: "Oh, it's not going to work." 31 minutes and 59 secondsIs there a way that you maybe could've figured that out? 32 minutes and 1 secondI don't know... 32 minutes and 3 secondsMaybe? 32 minutes and 4 secondsBut sometimes you have to bring it to that point 32 minutes and 6 secondsto realize it's just not going to work the way you intended it to be. 32 minutes and 9 secondsSo, okay. How do you fix that? 32 minutes and 11 secondsHow do we change it? 32 minutes and 13 secondsYou know, and sometimes you have to take the time to go: 32 minutes and 15 seconds"Okay, scratch it. We'll try something else." 32 minutes and 18 secondsANDY: So, the situation we are in with Bob Z, 32 minutes and 21 secondsthere is going to be overlap. 32 minutes and 22 secondsI mean, the reason this is happening is because... 32 minutes and 25 secondsJames is essentially done with gameplay elements in Bob Z. 32 minutes and 31 seconds-RYAN: No, not yet. -ZAK: Yeah. 32 minutes and 32 secondsThe only thing that I have been-- 32 minutes and 34 secondsIt's been communicated to me, he is finishing up the puzzle work. 32 minutes and 36 secondsYeah, like, he is finishing up his first implementation of that. 32 minutes and 39 secondsBut we need to review it, and then get feedback, 32 minutes and 42 secondsJAMES: Next brain will be Hollis's brain. 32 minutes and 45 secondsWhich, I think, unless we've changed it, is still a brain about addiction. 32 minutes and 49 seconds-ANDY: Schedule-wise... -RYAN: Yes. 32 minutes and 51 secondsThis sprint was when we were supposed to kick that off. 32 minutes and 52 secondsRight, right, right. That's totally fine. 32 minutes and 54 secondsAnd it is absolutely concerning. 32 minutes and 56 secondsAnd if we want to-- 32 minutes and 58 secondsYou know, our option is to start the concept phase to just get that going. 33 minutes and 1 secondBecause he doesn't have-- 33 minutes and 2 secondsJames right now does not have enough work to fill up the entire-- his two weeks... 33 minutes and 7 seconds-We can definitely... -...on Bob Z. 33 minutes and 9 secondsZAK: What are you actually advocating for? 33 minutes and 11 secondsJAMES: This level has gone on for eternity. 33 minutes and 14 secondsAnd this meeting will probably determine... 33 minutes and 18 secondswhether or not it will keep going for more than a week or so. 33 minutes and 21 secondsI'm trying really hard to... convince Ryan and Zak 33 minutes and 25 secondsthat it doesn't need to go for longer than a week. 33 minutes and 28 seconds-PAUL: Doesn't? -Does not. 33 minutes and 29 secondsJAMES: Um, hopefully coming to the last week... 33 minutes and 35 secondsof... action path work. 33 minutes and 39 secondsI hope. 33 minutes and 40 secondsI pray. 33 minutes and 42 secondsRYAN: We-- we, you know, we should keep reviewing it... 33 minutes and 44 secondsto make sure that is the case. 33 minutes and 47 secondsOkay... 33 minutes and 48 secondsZAK: So, I haven't had a chance to play through it in a while. 33 minutes and 50 secondsWhere are... 33 minutes and 52 secondsWhat state is it at for all the tilting being represented? 33 minutes and 56 seconds-ZAK: In representative. -JAMES: Uh, the puzzles are stubbed in. 33 minutes and 58 secondsJAMES: The tilting does not work, because we need, uh, tree pieces. 34 minutes and 2 secondsAnd that is not on the top of Jeremy's task list. 34 minutes and 5 seconds-ZAK: Okay. -JAMES: But I assume... 34 minutes and 8 secondsZAK: Because I would like to get out of representative 34 minutes and 10 secondswith that stuff being, like, also representative. 34 minutes and 14 secondsI think everyone on the team is really tired. 34 minutes and 17 secondsCam, are you tired? 34 minutes and 19 secondsCAMDEN: No. 34 minutes and 20 secondsJAMES: There is the theater interior. 34 minutes and 21 secondsOh, well, yeah. We also can cut areas that are done. 34 minutes and 23 secondsLike, sad as it is, like, it may still be the right decision 34 minutes and 25 secondsto cut an area that already is at representative. 34 minutes and 28 secondsJAMES: Sure, I don't know, the two or three that are done... 34 minutes and 31 secondsZAK: Sure. No, no, I'm just saying that when you are considering cuts 34 minutes and 34 secondshow almost done something is, is often a real sunk cost fallacy. 34 minutes and 40 secondsJust because how done-- Like, the reality of it is 34 minutes and 43 secondsthe amount of done that anything in our video game is right now... 34 minutes and 46 secondsis very little. 34 minutes and 48 secondsCompared to how much work we are going to have to do. 34 minutes and 49 seconds-Yeah, totally. -Um... 34 minutes and 51 secondsAnd so, there maybe a place where, like, 34 minutes and 52 secondssadly that you've already, like, done a representative pass on, but it's... 34 minutes and 56 secondsTIM: The first thing you do in any game-- 34 minutes and 57 secondsThe first thing you do when you enter the games industry should be cut. 35 minutes and 1 secondFirst thing I did was ship combat in Monkey Island. 35 minutes and 3 secondsCut. 35 minutes and 4 secondsBecause it teaches you not to get attached to anything. 35 minutes and 7 secondsPAUL: Ship combat? 35 minutes and 8 secondsYeah, remember the ship combat in Monkey 1? 35 minutes and 10 seconds-PAUL: Mm-mm. -That's because it got cut. 35 minutes and 12 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 35 minutes and 14 secondsIt was great! 35 minutes and 15 secondsAnd Ron saw that my star was rising too fast, 35 minutes and 18 secondsand he was like: "We are going to cut your shit." 35 minutes and 21 secondsAnd he did. 35 minutes and 22 secondsAnd now I'm going to do it to James. 35 minutes and 23 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 35 minutes and 25 secondsZAK: Alternatively, we can sit down, 35 minutes and 27 secondsballpark it, and just cut some shit. 35 minutes and 29 secondsFrom the hip. Like, that's our other alternative. 35 minutes and 31 secondsIf we don't feel like we have the ability to actually estimate 35 minutes and 33 secondswhat this level is going to take us to build. 35 minutes and 35 secondsThat's bad. We should fix that problem. 35 minutes and 37 secondsBut we can also just do it. Gut check it. 35 minutes and 45 seconds\[GEOFF LAUGHS\] 35 minutes and 48 secondsJAMES: We yell: "Stop!" when we think it's the right size. 35 minutes and 51 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 35 minutes and 58 secondsZAK: I think we haven't quite gotten... 36 minutes and 2 secondswhere we need to be creatively with them. 36 minutes and 4 secondsAnd we'll probably come back later on. 36 minutes and 5 secondsAnd layer on more crazy ideas. 36 minutes and 9 secondsRYAN: Cool. 36 minutes and 10 seconds-Thank you, everybody! -GEOFF: Wee! 36 minutes and 12 secondsZAK: ♪ Video games, video games ♪ 36 minutes and 17 secondsGEOFF: I do think the level has come a long way. 36 minutes and 19 seconds-ZAK: I do too. -RYAN: Absolutely, yes. 36 minutes and 20 secondsJEREMY: Holy shit! 36 minutes and 21 seconds\[JEREMY CHUCKLES\] 36 minutes and 23 secondsUm... yeah, it's crazy. 36 minutes and 26 secondsYeah, I do think some crazy shit is going to happen 36 minutes and 28 secondsover the process of making this game though. 36 minutes and 30 secondsPAUL: Yeah. 36 minutes and 31 seconds\[MUSIC\] 37 minutes and 13 seconds\[CLAPPING\] 37 minutes and 15 seconds-\[LAUGHTER\] -Christ! -[LAUGHTER] -Christ! 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