--- title: PsychOdyssey EP18 - “What Good Looks Like” date: 2023-01-20T13:19:00-08:00 author: Harper Jay canonical_url: "https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep18-what-good-looks-like" section: DFTV Videos --- [Watch on YouTube: What Good Looks Like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eImqHE7QO10) [View transcript ](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep18-what-good-looks-like#transcript) # What Good Looks Like Following a major departure from the studio, the team is forced to examine their own processes or risk losing more vital team members. [ Download Video ](https://archive.org/details/Double_Fine_PsychOdyssey) Duration: 39 minutes and 58 seconds long Published: January 20th 2023 [psychodyssey](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychodyssey)[psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychonauts-2)[making of psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/making-of-psychonauts-2)[documentary](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/documentary) [ NEXT EPISODE ](#) [![](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/news/2023/02/PsychOdyssey-Cover.jpg)**PsychOdyssey** 4KClosed Captions](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey) ## Episode Stills Gallery - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Andy Soda](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-07.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-07.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Andy Soda") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Lisette Granny](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-01.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-01.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Lisette Granny") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Tazio Thumbs](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-06.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-06.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Tazio Thumbs") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Tim Office With Mug](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-03.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-03.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Tim Office With Mug") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Brian Cheerful](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-02.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-02.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Brian Cheerful") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Meeting in Lola](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-05.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-05.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Meeting in Lola") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Emily Bright Shirt](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-04.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-04.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Emily Bright Shirt") - [![Jeremy Natividad, wearing a blue denim shirt, sits before a monitor bearing colorful concept art of Helmut Fullbear's mental landscape.](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-08.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-18-Stills-08.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 18 - Denim Jeremy") ## Episode Transcript 14 secondsMATT: All right. 16 seconds\[IN-GAME MUSIC IS PLAYING\] 20 secondsMATT: That looks interesting. 24 secondsAll right. 28 secondsAll right, uh... 30 secondsThere is a game, I'm guessing. 34 secondsAll right. 36 secondsYay! 37 seconds-ZAK: What?! -\[LAUGHTER\] 39 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 41 secondsWhat just happened? 43 seconds-DEVIN: Oh! -\[LAUGHTER\] 44 secondsZACH: What a tease! 47 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 minute and 20 secondsWhat would-- what would that be? What would it look like? 1 minute and 22 secondsWhat is the tank enemy itself? 1 minute and 24 secondsLike, I don't really have a very good idea right now. 1 minute and 27 secondsANNA: I think it's really, really important to let people... 1 minute and 30 secondsfeel like they are contributing their perspective to something. 1 minute and 33 seconds-TIM: "Nurse, code red!" -"Hand me the dice!" 1 minute and 35 secondsTIM: "Hand me the dice!" 1 minute and 36 seconds\[TIM LAUGHS\] 1 minute and 36 secondsJAMES: The idea of mashing of a hospital into a casino is pretty exciting. 1 minute and 39 secondsKEE: We'll kidnap you from where you are going. 1 minute and 41 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 1 minute and 43 secondsANNA: It's-- it's really strange to be the one leaving. 1 minute and 46 secondsANNA: This is really a special place. 1 minute and 48 secondsAnd it's unbelievable. 1 minute and 56 secondsEMILY: I'm really sad Anna left. I love Anna. 1 minute and 58 secondsAnna was-- was like... 2 minutes and 1 second...some sort of heart of Double Fine. 2 minutes and 3 secondsShe was a heart of Double Fine. 2 minutes and 6 secondsAnd... I miss her. 2 minutes and 8 secondsYeah, it was really sad to see Anna go, 2 minutes and 9 secondsbecause Anna has been here since almost the very beginning. 2 minutes and 11 secondsYou know, we spent many years working together. 2 minutes and 13 seconds\[MUSIC\] 2 minutes and 14 secondsKEE: You know someone for that long, it's-- 2 minutes and 16 secondsit's sad to see your friend-- your friend go. 2 minutes and 20 secondsI hope that, you know, that... 2 minutes and 23 secondsthat she-- she finds happiness in her next job, 2 minutes and 29 secondsor her current job, now that she's started. 2 minutes and 31 seconds\[CHEERING\] 2 minutes and 33 seconds\[MUSIC\] 2 minutes and 40 secondsI think it'll just be a little bit different. 2 minutes and 42 secondsI think a piece of-- of Double Fine... left. 2 minutes and 46 secondsAnd not to mention, you know, she'd been here so long. 2 minutes and 49 secondsAnd it was-- it was nice. 2 minutes and 50 secondsIt was the first time I ever had a female senior person above me. 2 minutes and 53 secondsThat never happened to me in my life. 2 minutes and 55 secondsI'm like: "Oh, this is cool!" 2 minutes and 56 seconds\[MUSIC\] 2 minutes and 58 secondsAnd, you know, she sat right next to me. 3 minutes and 0 secondsAnd she built some of our major systems. 3 minutes and 3 secondsAnd it was just-- it was a huge blow 3 minutes and 4 secondsin a lot of different ways. 3 minutes and 6 secondsYou know, on a project level she brought the experience from the first game. 3 minutes and 12 secondsBut a lot of, like the-- the gameplay know-how that she has, 3 minutes and 16 secondsjust years and years of experience that she has that she brings to the job. 3 minutes and 20 secondsShe was basically in charge of all AI. 3 minutes and 22 secondsAnd Brian was working with her, 3 minutes and 24 secondsso that he could sort of inherit some of the subsystems. 3 minutes and 26 secondsAnd now he is just kind of the AI guy. 3 minutes and 28 secondsUntil we get, like, an AI person. 3 minutes and 30 secondsPAUL: Anna left. 3 minutes and 32 secondsUh, yeah, she did. 3 minutes and 33 secondsPAUL: Why'd that happen? 3 minutes and 34 secondsUm, you know... 3 minutes and 37 secondsShe felt she needed to... 3 minutes and 41 seconds...experience new things, and so she... 3 minutes and 45 seconds\[SIGHS\] 3 minutes and 46 seconds...left me to fend for myself. 3 minutes and 48 secondsAnd, like, me, who is, like... 3 minutes and 50 seconds...trying to do what he can, but is still fairly inexperienced with AI, 3 minutes and 54 secondsand combat, like... 3 minutes and 56 secondsAI is super complex, and I hadn't done it professionally before. 4 minutes and 0 secondsAnd so, I'm still, like, learning. 4 minutes and 2 secondsWell, at least it's spawning. That's good. 4 minutes and 6 secondsBRIAN: Like I said, it's a challenge trying to, like, figure out 4 minutes and 8 secondswhat combat in Psychonauts 2 is. 4 minutes and 11 secondsBecause, like, I don't think any of us really knows what-- 4 minutes and 14 secondshas, like, a very pristine, exact... 4 minutes and 18 seconds...view of what that will be. 4 minutes and 20 secondsWe are just kind of, like-- 4 minutes and 22 secondsWe are heading towards various ideals. 4 minutes and 25 secondsZAK: So, combat development is going to be fun from here on out. 4 minutes and 29 secondsSo, we had our current plan of, like, whatever it was... 4 minutes and 32 secondseight complex enemies, and X number of simple enemies. 4 minutes and 34 secondsAnd, like... 4 minutes and 35 secondsThat may not be possible now anymore. 4 minutes and 38 secondsPAUL: Do you think that there were some things 4 minutes and 40 secondsthat could have happened that would have made her more likely to stay? 4 minutes and 46 seconds\[TIM SIGHS\] 4 minutes and 47 secondsPAUL: Because there were some changes after she left. 4 minutes and 50 secondsMm, mm-hmm. 4 minutes and 51 secondsZAK: Other exciting news also is we are going to get Scott's time. 4 minutes and 53 secondsAnd he is going to charge through a whole bunch 4 minutes and 55 secondsof crazy visual enemy design. 4 minutes and 58 secondsI've been too guarded of stuff, 5 minutes and 0 secondsof trying to keep us on schedule and pack as much into the game. 5 minutes and 3 secondsAnd that's mostly been trying to make a big game with a small team. 5 minutes and 5 secondsAnd I want to try to shift that to more of, like, bottom-up creativity. 5 minutes and 9 secondsTo have that be a broader discussion 5 minutes and 11 secondsthat hopefully everybody feels like they are excited about. 5 minutes and 15 secondsI hope. 5 minutes and 15 secondsIf you are not, let's talk about it one-on-one. 5 minutes and 17 secondsLike, you don't have to tell people while there is cameras rolling. 5 minutes and 20 secondsHi, everybody! 5 minutes and 21 seconds-ZAK: Um... -\[LAUGHTER\] 5 minutes and 22 secondsEMILY: No, I don't-- I don't know really if-- 5 minutes and 24 secondsI don't know if I have dirt on Anna. 5 minutes and 25 secondsI know that... 5 minutes and 27 secondsI don't think her and Zak got along. 5 minutes and 28 secondsThat's-- that's all I know. 5 minutes and 30 secondsShe left for the reasons that everyone else is really frustrated. 5 minutes and 34 secondsThere is pretty consistent complaints 5 minutes and 36 secondsthat the game is not Psychonautical enough right now. 5 minutes and 38 secondsStress has been rollercoaster for the last few months. 5 minutes and 43 secondsAnd when pathing is complete that means artists can paint over-- 5 minutes and 47 secondsRYAN: Pathing is not exactly complete 5 minutes and 48 secondsbecause we just gave James feedback and stuff that he needs to work on. 5 minutes and 50 secondsANDY: In which zones? 5 minutes and 52 seconds-The two we just looked at. -Okay. 5 minutes and 54 secondsJEREMY: My question is when will it be complete? 5 minutes and 56 secondsWhen we can do the iteration and then check it in. 5 minutes and 58 secondsThat's, I mean... 5 minutes and 59 secondsGEOFF: There is still a lot of work to do on the Hub. 6 minutes and 1 second-GEOFF: So, I would focus on the Hub. -Yes, right. 6 minutes and 3 secondsThis isn't an immediate need. 6 minutes and 4 secondsI'm just doing my due diligence to try and line stuff up. 6 minutes and 7 secondsYeah. 6 minutes and 9 secondsJust the problem that we keep running into is that iteration happens, 6 minutes and 12 secondsand then another week of iteration happens, 6 minutes and 14 secondsand then another week of iteration happens. 6 minutes and 17 secondsWe can never-- We keep waiting... 6 minutes and 19 seconds-...is the problem sometimes. -We are not. 6 minutes and 20 secondsWe are scheduling out what we are going to do. 6 minutes and 21 seconds(Yeah, I know, yeah.) 6 minutes and 23 secondsJAMES: Oh. 6 minutes and 26 secondsWhy did that meeting get so tense? 6 minutes and 29 secondsGEOFF: It does make it difficult, like, for you to start placing things 6 minutes and 34 secondswhen it's constant iteration. 6 minutes and 37 secondsAnd that goal post keeps moving back 6 minutes and 39 secondswhen you cannot fully go in there and start. 6 minutes and 41 secondsThere are things that you can do in the meantime. 6 minutes and 43 seconds-Like, kitting out this sort of stuff. -JEREMY: There is always stuff to do. 6 minutes and 46 secondsWhich you have already started to do. 6 minutes and 48 secondsI'm not worried about not having stuff to do. 6 minutes and 50 secondsI'm worried that it's never is going to stop. 6 minutes and 53 secondsThat iteration is never going to stop. 6 minutes and 54 secondsAnd I think it is... 6 minutes and 58 secondsThat was probably, like-- the boiling point was Anna leaving. 7 minutes and 0 secondsAnd was the moment everyone realized something needed to change 7 minutes and 3 secondsor else lots of people were going to leave. 7 minutes and 5 secondsZAK: I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about, uh... 7 minutes and 8 secondsThere's been a lot of feedback coming up. 7 minutes and 9 secondsJust about, like, process on the team 7 minutes and 11 secondsand how we work together, and collaboration. 7 minutes and 14 secondsUm, and all of that is really, really good feedback. 7 minutes and 17 secondsThere's been some sort of, like, 7 minutes and 18 secondsbig teeth-gnashy meetings and things like that. 7 minutes and 20 secondsBut it's all really awesome, because now we can fix those things 7 minutes and 24 secondsand make everything work better. 7 minutes and 25 secondsJEREMY: And also too, I think he knows that, like, we-- 7 minutes and 27 secondswe had that whole meeting about the designers and stuff. 7 minutes and 31 secondsAnd, like, there's going to be give and take, and, like... 7 minutes and 34 secondsIt's different. 7 minutes and 35 secondsDid you guys know about that? 7 minutes and 36 secondsThere were no cameras, so I don't know if, like... 7 minutes and 39 secondsDid you talk to anyone-- to anyone-- 7 minutes and 41 secondsI don't want to be the only one that's talking-- talked about this. 7 minutes and 44 secondsZAK: Yeah, I mean, that was-- 7 minutes and 45 secondsIt was one of the things-- we had a... 7 minutes and 47 seconds...big leads meeting about, uh... 7 minutes and 49 secondsjust kind of what we hope to get out of the next phase of the project... 7 minutes and 52 seconds...that I didn't let you guys film. 7 minutes and 56 secondsHey. 7 minutes and 57 secondsJAMES: We had a couple interdisciplinary meetings, 7 minutes and 58 secondsbut a lot of meetings within our own discipline 8 minutes and 0 secondsthat were like: "Hey, what's messed up about the project right now? 8 minutes and 3 secondsAnd it turns out, like, there is a lot of stuff 8 minutes and 5 secondsthat people are unhappy about. 8 minutes and 10 secondsTUCKER: What was that? 8 minutes and 12 secondsPAUL: Did the meeting end? 8 minutes and 13 secondsJEREMY: The thing that sucks is because it's, like... 8 minutes and 14 secondsI think it's an important part of, like, the project. 8 minutes and 18 secondsBut I don't want to be the guy that's talking about that. 8 minutes and 20 seconds-That's talking about that. -PAUL: We'll come back to you, if you... 8 minutes and 23 secondsJEREMY: Um, yeah. It was kind of tough at first. 8 minutes and 24 secondsBut I think it's a lot better now. 8 minutes and 27 secondsPAUL: It definitely was-- 8 minutes and 28 secondsIt was definitely a little contentious at first. 8 minutes and 30 secondsI'm surprised that there was no drama. 8 minutes and 32 secondsThat nobody walked out of the room like: "Bah!" 8 minutes and 35 secondsDoes that happen? 8 minutes and 36 secondsOh, I've had, like, some seriously bad scope discussions. 8 minutes and 39 seconds-PTSD. -Not here, but... 8 minutes and 41 secondsNo, not here. 8 minutes and 42 seconds-Other places. -Other places. 8 minutes and 43 secondsOf course. 8 minutes and 44 secondsLISETTE: We did help that a lot by changing how we were running meetings. 8 minutes and 48 secondsMeetings were very design focused and artists couldn't get a word in. 8 minutes and 51 secondsAnd so, as the creative process is evolving, 8 minutes and 54 secondsthey were feeling left out. 8 minutes and 56 secondsSo, you know, changing, like, who gets to speak first. 8 minutes and 59 secondsAnd then cutting-- noticing when people are cutting people off. 9 minutes and 2 secondsAnd then giving them the opportunity to speak, like... 9 minutes and 4 secondsAll those little things that people don't notice 9 minutes and 6 secondsreally matter when people feel like they are being heard. 9 minutes and 8 secondsYeah, actually we got rid of a lot of meetings. 9 minutes and 10 secondsWhich was nice, because before... 9 minutes and 12 secondsI mean, also too, I guess, there was just a lot more reviews, and, like... 9 minutes and 15 secondsUm, my meetings and, like, things have shrunk down a lot. 9 minutes and 18 secondsSo, I can get, like, a lot of work done. 9 minutes and 21 secondsYou know, there is, like, a lot less stress. 9 minutes and 22 secondsBecause there was, like, a lot of stress when you go into meetings and stuff, 9 minutes and 24 secondsand, like, you only have a couple hours a day to work. 9 minutes and 27 seconds\[GEOFF GRUNTS\] 9 minutes and 28 secondsGEOFF: Oh, wait, do I have another meeting now? 9 minutes and 29 secondsFuck! I do. Goddammit! 9 minutes and 30 secondsJEREMY: But, like, lately, it's... 9 minutes and 32 secondsI have, like, full days to actually work now. 9 minutes and 34 secondsAnd it's a lot easier to get things done. 9 minutes and 36 seconds\[GEOFF GRUNTS\] 9 minutes and 37 seconds\[MUSIC\] 9 minutes and 38 secondsI think Zak has a tendency... 9 minutes and 43 secondsto kind of want to know... 9 minutes and 46 secondsI don't want to say, like, controlling. 9 minutes and 47 secondsBut he just wants to, like, look over what people are doing, and sort of-- 9 minutes and 52 secondsHe is used to... 9 minutes and 54 secondstelling people to... 9 minutes and 56 seconds"Here is the next thing you have to do." 9 minutes and 57 seconds\[SIGHS\] 9 minutes and 59 secondsYou know, he was so organized, and had such a process for doing things, 10 minutes and 2 secondsthat I was like: "This will be a relief for the team." 10 minutes and 4 secondsBecause when I run things, it's very chaotic. 10 minutes and 7 secondsAnd everyone wonders how much work they have to do. 10 minutes and 9 secondsHe curls up into it and you roll him around like... 10 minutes and 11 secondsEMILY: And he's been very responsive. 10 minutes and 13 secondsOr he's been very, um... good at realizing that, um... 10 minutes and 18 secondsI'm sort of better unstructured. 10 minutes and 21 secondsBut in the beginning he was like: 10 minutes and 23 seconds"Do this next part." 10 minutes and 24 secondsAnd I was like: "I don't think that's important." 10 minutes and 27 secondsThe backstage area, it's also been a... 10 minutes and 30 secondsEMILY: They are also on, like, the sets and stuff like that. 10 minutes and 32 secondsZAK: Yeah, yeah. 10 minutes and 34 secondsRYAN: But this is being designed for that. 10 minutes and 36 secondsAnd we have metrics, and we have, like, minimum distances. 10 minutes and 39 seconds-EMILY: I know. -RYAN: And things we need for that. 10 minutes and 40 secondsRYAN: And this isn't just about combat by the way. 10 minutes and 42 secondsThis is about a lot of the other gameplay that we have 10 minutes and 44 secondswhich requires those kinds of metrics to be observed 10 minutes and 46 secondsin order to make it good gameplay for what we are doing. 10 minutes and 49 secondsIt definitely felt like design was... 10 minutes and 52 secondskind of trying to... 10 minutes and 54 secondsgatekeep all the content. 10 minutes and 57 secondsAnd, uh... that just wasn't going to work. 11 minutes and 0 secondsBecause we had to do our jobs, you know. 11 minutes and 2 secondsSo, we have to find the balance between riding the ride 11 minutes and 4 secondsand experiencing the story. 11 minutes and 6 secondsAnd then getting off the ride and jumping and moving around. 11 minutes and 10 secondsAnd if things are too spread out, the story suffers. 11 minutes and 12 secondsAnd if things are too compact, then the gameplay suffers. 11 minutes and 14 secondsIt's an ongoing struggle. 11 minutes and 16 secondsAnd I don't think it's ever going to go away. 11 minutes and 17 secondsThis kind of-- this dynamic between art, design, and engineering. 11 minutes and 21 secondsIt's a symbiosis, but there is also differing, like, goals and desires. 11 minutes and 27 secondsAnd you always have to kind of find 11 minutes and 28 secondsthe middle ground that works for the player. 11 minutes and 30 secondsJAMES: It feels like people think that it's not how Double Fine does it normally. 11 minutes and 33 secondsBut also my understanding has always been 11 minutes and 35 secondsthat Zak and other new people have been brought in to... 11 minutes and 39 secondsmake the studio run differently. 11 minutes and 40 secondsSo, like, it could just be growing pains 11 minutes and 42 secondsthat people are not used to games being made this way. 11 minutes and 46 secondsTIM: Uh... and Seth! 11 minutes and 48 secondsYeah, I'm going to be joining the level design team for Psychonauts. 11 minutes and 50 seconds-\[CHEERING\] -TIM: Awesome, awesome. 11 minutes and 53 seconds\[CLAPPING\] 11 minutes and 55 secondsUh, how many Dio shirts do you both own? 11 minutes and 58 secondsUh, I have three, I think. 12 minutes and 0 secondsAnd then, one Black Sabbath, like, Heaven and Hell... 12 minutes and 2 secondsTIM: Yeah. 12 minutes and 3 secondsYeah, yeah, yeah. 12 minutes and 5 secondsSomebody told Seth how to get job at Double Fine. 12 minutes and 6 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 12 minutes and 8 seconds-ZAK: There was a tip-off on that one. -\[TIM LAUGHS\] 12 minutes and 10 secondsWe are looking at sort of, like, the process team-wide and culture-wide. 12 minutes and 13 secondsAnd sort of figuring out how to work better together. 12 minutes and 16 secondsUm, because, you know, going into last year, 12 minutes and 18 secondsthere was a lot of just, like, heads down, here is a big list of things, 12 minutes and 20 secondslet's get things done. 12 minutes and 22 secondsUm, and people... drift apart when you do that. 12 minutes and 25 secondsYou know, people kind of move apart in goals, 12 minutes and 27 secondspeople lose track of what other people are doing. 12 minutes and 30 secondsPeople are not as sort of generous or trusting 12 minutes and 33 secondsin terms of, like, if something is not getting done, 12 minutes and 35 secondsmaybe there is a reason for it. 12 minutes and 37 secondsOr if something is being done that I don't understand, 12 minutes and 38 secondsmaybe there is a reason for it. 12 minutes and 39 secondsAnd so, um... 12 minutes and 41 secondsIt's a little fractured right now. 12 minutes and 42 secondsSo, we are trying to focus a lot more on just team cohesion. 12 minutes and 45 secondsAnd, um, kind of team culture, and come up with a better way of working 12 minutes and 50 secondsas we move into kind of the next phase of the project, 12 minutes and 52 secondsbecause there is going to be a lot to do. 12 minutes and 53 secondsZAK: I welcome that feedback 12 minutes and 55 secondsand I want that feedback to be happening on the team, because-- 12 minutes and 58 secondsJAMES: Yeah, I mean, in a lot of our discipline meetings-- 13 minutes and 1 secondThat's a weird to say that. 13 minutes and 3 secondsIn a lot of our, like, design meetings and art meetings 13 minutes and 6 secondswe've talked about how we'd like to have more Tim time for, like, low level stuff. 13 minutes and 11 secondsAnd... 13 minutes and 12 secondsIt's unfortunate that he doesn't seem to have the time. 13 minutes and 14 secondsUh, is Tim not making it to this. 13 minutes and 16 secondsPAUL: He is coming. 13 minutes and 18 secondsSo you say. 13 minutes and 19 secondsPAUL: We've sort of been used to seeing Tim around more... 13 minutes and 21 seconds-PAUL: ...in meetings. -ZAK: Yeah. 13 minutes and 22 seconds...tutorial-ly and story-ly what's important about the level. 13 minutes and 25 secondsLadies and gentlemen, Tim... 13 minutes and 28 seconds...Tiberius Schafer! 13 minutes and 30 secondsWhat is your middle name? John? Is it just a John? 13 minutes and 31 secondsTiberius sounds pretty good. I like it. 13 minutes and 33 secondsPAUL: And he's been... 13 minutes and 35 secondsHe's definitely been writing a lot of stuff. 13 minutes and 36 secondsIt's not like he is off not doing anything. 13 minutes and 37 secondsYep. 13 minutes and 38 secondsPAUL: But... we just wonder if that element is missed? 13 minutes and 42 secondsAbsolutely, yeah. 13 minutes and 44 secondsTIM: I'm going to walk away from this meeting. 13 minutes and 45 secondsI don't know if it's over, but it seems like it's over. 13 minutes and 46 secondsRYAN: It's over. 13 minutes and 48 secondsIt is over. 13 minutes and 48 secondsANDY: Nothing is over! 13 minutes and 50 secondsNothing! 13 minutes and 51 seconds\[PAUL CHUCKLES\] 13 minutes and 52 secondsYou just don't turn it off! 13 minutes and 53 seconds(What is he talking about?) 13 minutes and 54 secondsRambo! Come on! Anyone? No? 13 minutes and 56 secondsIsn't the first one really different than the other ones? 13 minutes and 58 seconds-RYAN: Yes. -ANDY: Yes. 13 minutes and 59 secondsRYAN: The first one's actually a good movie. 14 minutes and 0 secondsComparative discussion of Rambo versus First Blood is always my cue to... 14 minutes and 4 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 14 minutes and 6 secondsBecause I have too many opinions about that. 14 minutes and 9 seconds-All right. -All right. 14 minutes and 10 secondsZAK: So, one of the things that came up was trying to get more Tim involvement. 14 minutes and 13 secondsUm, it's a tricky thing. 14 minutes and 14 secondsYou know, like, I have tried... 14 minutes and 16 secondsI mean, I'm very personally invested in the game, and creatively invested, 14 minutes and 19 secondsand I see all of these things in the game that are like: "Ah!" 14 minutes and 22 secondsJust ideas we had forever ago. 14 minutes and 23 secondsbut I know for a lot of people, like... 14 minutes and 24 secondsI will always be the game's step-dad kind of. 14 minutes and 27 secondsUh, and, you know... 14 minutes and 31 secondshaving Tim's approval... 14 minutes and 33 secondseven if they don't literally need it, 14 minutes and 35 secondsyou know, even if it isn't like he is blocking things... 14 minutes and 37 secondsUm, having him give the blessing 14 minutes and 39 secondsto what we are doing on a more continual basis 14 minutes and 41 secondsis something that I think is important to people. 14 minutes and 44 secondsUm, so that they feel like... 14 minutes and 47 secondsthey are making the right game. 14 minutes and 48 secondsYou know, because a lot of people have come in, 14 minutes and 49 secondspeople who are Psychonauts fans, 14 minutes and 50 secondsand they want to be making a good Psychonauts 2. 14 minutes and 52 seconds-Is Tim here? -ANDY: Nope. 14 minutes and 54 secondsJEREMY: I'm going to go see if-- 14 minutes and 56 secondsZAK: And I think him being-- 14 minutes and 58 secondsbeing a little more present than he has been 15 minutes and 0 secondsis part of putting them at ease. 15 minutes and 2 seconds\[MUSIC\] 15 minutes and 3 secondsBut we gotta find a way to split the difference 15 minutes and 5 secondsbetween him being locked away in his office, writing on the game, 15 minutes and 8 secondsand him, you know, actually being out there 15 minutes and 12 secondsin front of people once in a while. 15 minutes and 14 secondsBecause I think it makes a huge, huge difference in... 15 minutes and 16 secondsuh... 15 minutes and 18 secondsjust what people think they are building, you know? 15 minutes and 20 secondsUm... 15 minutes and 21 secondsAnd I certainly could use the support, so. 15 minutes and 24 secondsAll right! Ending of the game. 15 minutes and 26 secondsOkay! I was going to write those two cutscenes. 15 minutes and 28 secondsAll right, ending of the game. So, let's-- let's... 15 minutes and 30 secondsHow far did I get? 15 minutes and 32 secondsI got to... going into the mental scalpel. 15 minutes and 34 seconds-Coming out. -ZAK: Yeah. 15 minutes and 36 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 15 minutes and 37 secondsTIM: I've always been very controlling about the writing on the project. 15 minutes and 39 secondsAnd, um... 15 minutes and 41 secondsI had to be really behind on my schedule 15 minutes and 44 secondsto be talked into getting any help ever. 15 minutes and 48 secondsIt's just easier to write it yourself. 15 minutes and 49 secondsWhen someone else writes stuff... 15 minutes and 51 secondsIf it's great, it's great. 15 minutes and 53 secondsAnd if it's really bad, that's great too. 15 minutes and 54 secondsBecause you are like: "This is really bad." 15 minutes and 55 secondsBut if it's just, like... 15 minutes and 56 secondsWhen it's okay and you are just kind of like... 15 minutes and 59 seconds\[SIGHS\] 16 minutes and 0 secondsUh... I don't know what to say. 16 minutes and 3 secondsBut sometimes when it's just, like, taste or style... 16 minutes and 5 secondsThat's what I'm worried about the most. 16 minutes and 7 secondsWhen it's, like, a taste or a style issue. 16 minutes and 9 secondsWhat happens at the end of the game? 16 minutes and 11 secondsLike, is someone-- is some-- 16 minutes and 13 secondsLike, those two characters who are both potentially could be portrayed 16 minutes and 17 secondsas wrong and evil, redeemable or unredeemable, 16 minutes and 20 secondstragic or villainous, like... because it could, 16 minutes and 23 secondsyou could take either one of them. 16 minutes and 25 secondsIt could be that, yeah, Ford is unredeemably awful. 16 minutes and 27 secondsOr Maligula just can't be saved. 16 minutes and 29 secondsOr one of them sacrifices themselves for the other one. 16 minutes and 31 secondsOr you learn that it was all a misunderstanding or whatever. 16 minutes and 33 secondsAnd, like, what-- 16 minutes and 35 secondswhat version of that is the right version for a Psychonauts game... 16 minutes and 41 seconds-Hmm. -...is my question. 16 minutes and 42 secondsYeah, it's a funny challenge, because, like... 16 minutes and 45 seconds\[SIGHS\] 16 minutes and 46 seconds-Maligula could die. -ZAK: Yep! 16 minutes and 47 secondsSacrifice herself. 16 minutes and 49 secondsBut it's, like, such a short amount of time 16 minutes and 51 secondsto have that much emotional growth. 16 minutes and 52 secondsZAK: Yep. 16 minutes and 53 secondsFord is, actually, at this point in the story, 16 minutes and 55 secondshe is probably worse? 16 minutes and 57 secondsHe did all the things, yeah. 16 minutes and 59 secondsI think that's what's going to... 17 minutes and 1 secondI think that's going to be the audience perception 17 minutes and 2 secondsbased on what we have right now. 17 minutes and 3 secondsIt's like: "Huh, Ford's kind of a bad guy." 17 minutes and 6 seconds-All is fair in love and war. -ZAK: Yeah! 17 minutes and 8 secondsOr he was young, and he made mistakes, and then he suffered enough for it 17 minutes and 10 secondsby being crazy all these years. 17 minutes and 12 secondsYeah. 17 minutes and 15 secondsIt seems like to really make it-- 17 minutes and 17 secondsThe game-- Like, the victory is that he is-- 17 minutes and 20 secondsFord has brought back the original vision of the Psychonauts to the Psychonauts. 17 minutes and 23 secondsSo, Ford and the Psychic Seven. 17 minutes and 25 secondsThey are-- you know, 17 minutes and 26 secondsthey are all welcomed back into the base in some way. 17 minutes and 31 secondsFor lunch, they get a free lunch. 17 minutes and 32 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 17 minutes and 35 secondsAll right. 17 minutes and 36 seconds-ZAK: You are like: "All right!" -Let's do that! 17 minutes and 37 secondsPfft! 17 minutes and 38 secondsYou are making it all easy. It's so easy now. 17 minutes and 39 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 17 minutes and 41 secondsYou know, I feel for Zak, because that's a high pressure position. 17 minutes and 43 secondsIt's, like, a lonely job. 17 minutes and 45 secondsYou have to-- You can talk to-- 17 minutes and 46 secondsHe can talk to me, he can talk to his producers, but you-- 17 minutes and 48 secondsyou've got a bunch of people on the team that you are trying to keep moving, 17 minutes and 51 secondsand productive, and happy, and, um... 17 minutes and 54 secondsyou are a natural focal point for their... dissatisfaction 17 minutes and 57 secondsif anything is-- you know, on the project. 17 minutes and 58 secondsAnd, um, especially that part of the project 18 minutes and 0 secondswhere you are just hoping people have faith 18 minutes and 1 secondthat it's going to be good. 18 minutes and 3 secondsI think it's always a trial. 18 minutes and 4 secondsAnd especially a trial for a new project leader to... 18 minutes and 6 secondsexude that confidence to everybody. 18 minutes and 9 secondsSAMMY: ...their rendering API. 18 minutes and 10 seconds-ZAK: Uh... -It's the new... 18 minutes and 11 secondsHey, when you are done, can I talk to you? 18 minutes and 13 secondsEMILY: I can't even imagine, like... 18 minutes and 15 seconds...being-- being in his situation. 18 minutes and 17 secondsThat sounds so hard. 18 minutes and 19 seconds\[MUSIC\] 18 minutes and 21 secondsHe is trying. 18 minutes and 22 secondsI know he is trying. 18 minutes and 24 seconds\[ZAK SIGHS\] 18 minutes and 25 secondsThere is nothing in the game that I am-- I don't understand how it would get good. 18 minutes and 30 secondsAwesome! 18 minutes and 32 secondsOkay, great! 18 minutes and 33 seconds-Hey, Asif! -ASIF: Yes. 18 minutes and 35 secondsDesigner Asif. 18 minutes and 36 secondsZAK: And... I need to, uh... 18 minutes and 40 secondsfigure out how to get everybody on board with that-- 18 minutes and 43 secondsjust confidence. 18 minutes and 44 secondsANDY: So, we are only-- we are only left with, like, 40 open issues 18 minutes and 47 secondswhich is about what we usually end with. 18 minutes and 49 secondsUm, and these are the things that are just going to be rolling over 18 minutes and 51 secondsto the next, uh... sprint and milestone. 18 minutes and 56 secondsUh, so, this milestone really is about getting all of our core gameplay systems 19 minutes and 0 secondsand our world art represented in real, actual production levels. 19 minutes and 3 secondsUm, at a level of polish and density 19 minutes and 5 secondsthat represents our intentions for the full game. 19 minutes and 7 secondsUm, so, not totally shippable, not totally perfect. 19 minutes and 10 secondsBut something that we can sort of stand behind 19 minutes and 11 secondsand look at and be like: 19 minutes and 12 seconds"Yes, that is the version of the thing that we want to ship, 19 minutes and 15 secondsand it's just going to get better and better everyday. 19 minutes and 17 secondsBut, basically, something that demonstrates what good looks like. 19 minutes and 19 secondsSo, we are going to be that, uh, 19 minutes and 21 secondsin what we are calling currently Pilot areas. 19 minutes and 24 secondsZAK: So, my hope for that is-- I'm trying to sort of just build... 19 minutes and 27 secondssome buy-in on, kind of, what our creative goals are. 19 minutes and 30 secondsUm, so, there is a couple of different ones that are happening 19 minutes and 32 secondsin different areas across the game. 19 minutes and 33 secondsAnd the idea is each one of those would sort of demonstrate 19 minutes and 35 secondsa different kind of good thing about the game. 19 minutes and 38 secondsUm, and then, eventually we'll start sort of pushing that out 19 minutes and 41 secondsas an example to everywhere across the game. 19 minutes and 43 secondsSo, there is an exploration pilot which covers platforming, collectibles, 19 minutes and 46 secondsand world interactivity of punching things, and collecting things, 19 minutes and 49 secondsand exploring, and platforming. 19 minutes and 51 secondsAnd we are going to do that in the Hollis hub. 19 minutes and 53 secondsThe big Hollis hub area. 19 minutes and 54 secondsUm, puzzle pilot which hopefully will represent 19 minutes and 56 secondsa shippable version of a puzzle. 19 minutes and 58 secondsA puzzle that we can play and playtest, 20 minutes and 0 secondsand some day will ship. 20 minutes and 1 secondAs opposed to a puzzle we will build, hate and then take out of the game again. 20 minutes and 4 secondsWhich is what we have been doing. 20 minutes and 6 secondsThis is the, uh... puzzle pilot, yeah. 20 minutes and 9 seconds-Is this you? -Mm-hmm. 20 minutes and 10 secondsYou are the puzzle pilot master? 20 minutes and 13 secondsYou are the flight attendant on this puzzle pilot? 20 minutes and 15 secondsASIF: Yeah, well, there was no one left to make puzzles, so. 20 minutes and 17 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 20 minutes and 18 secondsZAK: The combat pilot. 20 minutes and 20 secondsCovering representative group combat throughout the tutorial areas of Cassie. 20 minutes and 23 secondsZAK: Oh, yeah, this is nobody attacks! 20 minutes and 24 secondsYeah, nobody attacks. 20 minutes and 26 secondsEspecially him jump-- Like, they back up from you. 20 minutes and 29 secondsHe is in the corner. 20 minutes and 30 secondsZACH: They are like: "Whoa, whoa, I don't need-- I don't want any trouble!" 20 minutes and 32 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 20 minutes and 33 secondsWILL: "This guy's crazy!" 20 minutes and 34 seconds-"We are just in a library." -"Yeah, what's this guy doing?!" 20 minutes and 36 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 20 minutes and 37 secondsZAK: And a very exciting world art pilot 20 minutes and 40 secondswith pre-Alpha pass at world art, visual effects, and lighting. 20 minutes and 45 seconds-ZAK: Running on PS4 at thirty frames-- -BRIAN: Sixty! 20 minutes and 48 secondsSixty? 20 minutes and 49 seconds-I don't know. -ZAK: Uh-oh, ninety! 20 minutes and 50 secondsZAK: One-twenty. 20 minutes and 51 secondsIt's going to be in Hobbit-vision. 20 minutes and 53 secondsUm, but this is sort of the big thing that we are trying to accomplish, 20 minutes and 56 secondsis have a couple of areas where-- that look great, 20 minutes and 59 secondsand a couple of areas that play great, for different kinds of gameplay. 21 minutes and 1 secondUm, and then, as we approach the next milestone, 21 minutes and 4 secondskind of spread those out as guidelines more across the game-- more evenly. 21 minutes and 8 secondsThat might have been my version. 21 minutes and 9 secondsANDY: I can-- I can still-- 21 minutes and 11 secondsPAUL: I'll have to look at yours. 21 minutes and 13 secondsANDY: I pulled whatever was in my-- 21 minutes and 15 secondsTAZIO: Oh, I'm sorry. 21 minutes and 20 secondsPAUL: Now, with Psychonauts now, 21 minutes and 23 secondswe've sort of seen a recent shift after the previous milestone. 21 minutes and 26 secondsMm-hmm. 21 minutes and 27 secondsPAUL: Where they are trying out this pilot process. 21 minutes and 29 secondsYes, yes, yes. 21 minutes and 31 secondsThere is a lot of things that's very energizing 21 minutes and 32 secondsabout working collaboratively and closely together on a-- 21 minutes and 35 secondsvery iterative way. 21 minutes and 37 secondsJust to get, you know, your head-- 21 minutes and 38 secondsjust to get your head out of your desk 21 minutes and 41 secondsand, like, be able to take a step back 21 minutes and 43 secondsand look at what it is that's being created. 21 minutes and 45 seconds\[MUSIC\] 21 minutes and 50 secondsLISETTE: This whole area needs a theme to make it work, right? 21 minutes and 53 secondsIt's either, like-- 21 minutes and 54 secondsthat's X-rays, X-ray machines. 21 minutes and 57 secondsThere is something about all of the pieces that need to make sense. 22 minutes and 0 secondsJAMES: And now, with the pilot program, we are actually, like, sitting in a room 22 minutes and 4 secondsand talking about, like, holistically what makes the level good or bad. 22 minutes and 6 secondsWhich is a nice change. 22 minutes and 8 secondsDEVIN: And we really need, like, a time running out sound on that. 22 minutes and 11 secondsYeah, I'm going to talk to audio after this. 22 minutes and 13 secondsAMY: The entire sort of, like, company is represented 22 minutes and 16 secondsin all of its departments. 22 minutes and 18 secondsLike, there is an FX artist there, there is a concept artist there, 22 minutes and 21 secondsthere is programmers and designers, 22 minutes and 23 secondsand we are all talking about things together. 22 minutes and 25 secondsThe pilots were cool, because... 22 minutes and 27 secondsLike, we saw progress. 22 minutes and 28 seconds\[MUSIC\] 22 minutes and 30 secondsAMY: There is more of a sense of collaboration in them. 22 minutes and 33 secondsAnd I think that's kind of raised morale a bit. 22 minutes and 36 seconds-I brought Levi! -BEN: Oh, no! 22 minutes and 40 secondsHe is going to do it too! 22 minutes and 41 secondsAMY: I think it's really good for us to see it all come together. 22 minutes and 44 seconds\[CHEERING\] 22 minutes and 47 seconds-Peace! -Go, team! Play the build. 22 minutes and 49 secondsS'up, Andy? 22 minutes and 51 secondsHi. 22 minutes and 53 seconds\[EMILY LAUGHS\] 22 minutes and 55 seconds-I don't like this at all. -No? 22 minutes and 58 secondsHR! 22 minutes and 59 secondsDidn't want to upset anybody. 23 minutes and 1 secondTIM: But I think people wanted to see results in certain areas. 23 minutes and 4 secondsEspecially, proving that the game was going to feel Psychonautical, 23 minutes and 8 secondsfeel like a good follow-up to Psychonauts. 23 minutes and 11 secondsThe biggest and most exciting thing that we are going to undertake 23 minutes and 14 secondsis the narrative pilot. 23 minutes and 15 secondsZAK: Whoo-oo. 23 minutes and 17 secondsDon't do that. 23 minutes and 18 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 23 minutes and 19 secondsSo, that's where the things like the narrative pilot came from. 23 minutes and 21 secondsIt's, like, a lot of that stuff-- 23 minutes and 22 secondswhen you play the game... 23 minutes and 24 seconds...that's what seems missing. 23 minutes and 25 secondsIt's all the characters, and story, and stuff. 23 minutes and 27 secondsAll right, Tim said he was going to make it. 23 minutes and 28 seconds-But I guess he is not? -He is on his way. 23 minutes and 30 secondsHe is going to do a lot of writing and it's going to be amazing. 23 minutes and 33 seconds-Uh, okay, so... -ZACH: Do we have his live location? 23 minutes and 34 secondsNarrative pilot! 23 minutes and 36 secondsAnything else-- anything else people think strongly needs to be included? 23 minutes and 39 secondsSubtitles. 23 minutes and 41 secondsZAK: Oh, subtitles! Oh! Good one, yeah! 23 minutes and 43 secondsAll right! 23 minutes and 44 secondsUm, do we have what we need for that? 23 minutes and 47 seconds-Nope. -\[LAUGHTER\] 23 minutes and 49 secondsZAK: All right. 23 minutes and 50 secondsLet's put it on there as a stretch goal as we'll try to get to it. 23 minutes and 53 seconds-SAMMY: Cool. -ZAK: For sure. 23 minutes and 54 secondsZAK: Yes, I think that's probably going to-- 23 minutes and 55 secondsthe interesting object stuff is probably going to come as part of the second pass 23 minutes and 57 secondswhere we play through it and would be like: 23 minutes and 59 seconds"Hey, Raz should say a thing about this funny sign." 24 minutes and 1 second-ZAK: Or whatever. -SETH: Yeah. 24 minutes and 2 secondsZAK: Big log, purple bushes. 24 minutes and 4 secondsBig log. That's pretty funny. 24 minutes and 7 seconds\[RYAN AND TIM LAUGH SILENTLY\] 24 minutes and 9 secondsZACH: (Squirrels!) 24 minutes and 10 secondsWe've got squirrels! 24 minutes and 12 secondsUh... 24 minutes and 13 seconds-BRIAN: We've got squirrels! -And goats. 24 minutes and 14 secondsWe've got goats! 24 minutes and 15 secondsUh, and they can be in the diner. 24 minutes and 17 secondsAnd we got a squirrel milking a goat. 24 minutes and 19 secondsZAK: Squirrel milking a goat? 24 minutes and 20 secondsOh, that's a surprise! Sorry! 24 minutes and 22 secondsThat was going to be a surprise for Zak later. 24 minutes and 26 seconds(A goat milking a squirrel.) 24 minutes and 27 seconds\[TIM LAUGHS\] 24 minutes and 30 secondsUh... 24 minutes and 35 secondsTIM: But I've never felt worried about that stuff going in. 24 minutes and 38 secondsBecause that's-- 24 minutes and 39 secondsThere's going to be way too much of that stuff by the time we are done. 24 minutes and 41 secondsThere's going to be way too many jokes. 24 minutes and 43 secondsWe are going to have to cut jokes by the time it's done. 24 minutes and 45 secondsAnd cut characters and stuff. 24 minutes and 47 secondsZAK: Anything else that you think is super important that is-- 24 minutes and 49 secondslike, should be included with the pilot that we haven't talked about. 24 minutes and 53 secondsWell, I had some thoughts I was just going to mention them too. 24 minutes and 55 secondsThey're not implementation specific, but I was like... 24 minutes and 58 secondsA character changes some b-line plot or feeling during the thing, you know? 25 minutes and 3 seconds-Like, we actually show someone-- -ZAK: Some progression. 25 minutes and 5 secondsSome progression or a character state 25 minutes and 6 secondsto show, like, all these tools add up to, like-- 25 minutes and 9 secondsAnd go! And break! 25 minutes and 15 secondsJAMES: Yeah, for sure, yeah. 25 minutes and 16 secondsBecause we've been told a bunch by the old-timers here that, like: 25 minutes and 19 seconds"When Tim writes stuff, it's going to change the level, and... 25 minutes and 22 secondsyou are going to have to-- 25 minutes and 23 secondsand you are going to want to make design changes 25 minutes and 24 secondsbased on the stuff he comes up with." 25 minutes and 25 secondsWhich is great! 25 minutes and 27 secondsBecause that's the thing we all want the game to do right now, 25 minutes and 29 secondsis to feel more like Psychonauts. 25 minutes and 31 seconds\[MUSIC\] 26 minutes and 14 secondsOh-ho! Look at that! 26 minutes and 18 secondsThat is super awesome and a good video game! 26 minutes and 22 secondsYeah! 26 minutes and 24 secondsCARYL: I don't know, we have another, uh... 26 minutes and 26 secondsprogrammer starting on Psychonauts, also named Anna. 26 minutes and 29 secondsApparently we always have to have a programmer named Anna. 26 minutes and 33 secondsYep, Newton's third law of Anna's. 26 minutes and 35 secondsSo... 26 minutes and 37 secondsnew Anna is going to take old Anna's job. 26 minutes and 40 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 26 minutes and 41 secondsTIM: Often when someone starts here at the company, 26 minutes and 43 secondswe ask them some questions in front of everybody 26 minutes and 45 secondsin case someone wasn't there during the interview, 26 minutes and 47 secondsand doesn't know anything about you. 26 minutes and 49 secondsJames, you are looking at me. Do you have a question for Anna? 26 minutes and 51 secondsYes, go ahead. 26 minutes and 52 secondsIf you were a character in the movie The Lake House... 26 minutes and 55 seconds...what would you send through the time-traveling mail box? 26 minutes and 58 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 26 minutes and 59 secondsI was just gonna give you one of these. 27 minutes and 3 secondsSo, just put that under your shirt. 27 minutes and 5 seconds\[MUSIC\] 27 minutes and 7 secondsZAK: And combat is sort of, uh... 27 minutes and 10 secondsin an in-between state right now for sure. 27 minutes and 12 secondsLike, there is some really good infrastructure 27 minutes and 14 secondsand some good content, but we haven't had the chance to sort of polish it. 27 minutes and 16 secondsLike, the most specific thing-- 27 minutes and 17 secondsPAUL: How do you feel like you've been meshing 27 minutes and 18 secondswith the culture of the studio in general? 27 minutes and 20 secondsLike, is this place that different from other game studios you've been at? 27 minutes and 23 secondsANNA: It's a lot friendlier environment. 27 minutes and 26 secondsUh, I'm-- you know, I come from Chicago. 27 minutes and 29 secondsWhich... is-- 27 minutes and 32 secondsespecially the programming is very bro-ey there. 27 minutes and 35 secondsSo, it's very competitive with programmers. 27 minutes and 39 secondsBut here... 27 minutes and 41 secondsAaron, our graphics engineer-- 27 minutes and 43 secondsI'll ask him a math question, and he is like: "I don't know." 27 minutes and 45 secondsAnd he is perfectly fine with saying I don't know. 27 minutes and 48 secondsAnd... 27 minutes and 50 secondsI like that? 27 minutes and 51 secondsIt's not-- it's more of a collaborative-- we help each other. 27 minutes and 55 secondsAnd... 27 minutes and 56 secondswe are okay saying that? 27 minutes and 58 secondsWhich... 27 minutes and 59 secondsthat's taken a little while to get used to. 28 minutes and 1 secondAlso, this noise gets a little-- 28 minutes and 2 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 28 minutes and 4 secondsBRIAN: And so, like, things have been sort of accelerating since then. 28 minutes and 6 secondsWhich is great, and I think-- 28 minutes and 8 secondsI think Anna was a great hire. 28 minutes and 10 secondsAnd I'm glad she is with us. 28 minutes and 12 seconds\[MUSIC\] 28 minutes and 15 secondsZAK: Oh, man! 28 minutes and 17 secondsSCOTT: That's just the judge, like, really judging you. 28 minutes and 20 secondsSuper-- 28 minutes and 21 seconds-SCOTT: Yeah. -ADAM: "Stupid." 28 minutes and 23 secondsZAK: The giant hammer that says stupid on it is so harsh. 28 minutes and 27 secondsSCOTT: You have a judgment-- Everyone has kind of a judgy side, 28 minutes and 29 secondsNo one likes to be judged. 28 minutes and 31 secondsSo, this is, like, your inner judge. 28 minutes and 33 seconds-ZAK: Yeah, yeah, yeah. -ZACH: Giant gavel. 28 minutes and 35 secondsZAK: So, Dwayne is-- 28 minutes and 37 secondsSo, Dwayne is, like, a big, defensive, kind of strongman character 28 minutes and 42 secondsthat has this giant shield. 28 minutes and 44 secondsAnd the shield blocks all your attacks. 28 minutes and 46 secondsOh, it seems like this character should go with this prototype that we have. 28 minutes and 49 seconds\[MUSIC\] 29 minutes and 0 secondsCLAM: We working to swap the old guy with the new guy, 29 minutes and 3 secondsso that all the-- all the animations work. 29 minutes and 7 secondsAnd, uh, his animations are slowly being replaced. 29 minutes and 11 seconds\[CLAM CHUCKLES\] 29 minutes and 15 seconds-But! -Brutal. 29 minutes and 16 secondsCLAM: But we are slowly swapping them out. 29 minutes and 18 secondsAnd soon all those weird deformed ones will be replaced. 29 minutes and 22 secondsAnd we are replacing some of the attacks. 29 minutes and 24 secondsBut this was the quickest way to get them up and running. 29 minutes and 27 secondsZAK: The judge, ladies and gentlemen! 29 minutes and 28 seconds-Yay. -\[CLAPPING\] 29 minutes and 32 seconds\[MUSIC\] 29 minutes and 37 secondsYeah, if there are any big ticket items that are going in today... 29 minutes and 42 seconds-Hi, Tim. -TIM: Hi! 29 minutes and 43 secondsAnything exciting happened? 29 minutes and 45 secondsSETH: We got dialogue trees in! 29 minutes and 48 secondsOkay. 29 minutes and 52 secondsSETH: So, I will say the one thing that's interesting 29 minutes and 55 secondsabout Tim working in his office all the time is... 30 minutes and 0 secondsI thought that going through this 30 minutes and 1 secondI would get some sort of sense of his process 30 minutes and 4 secondsand how he, like, actually thinks about this stuff. 30 minutes and 7 secondsIt's not like he has, like, a... 30 minutes and 10 secondsa bunch of note files on Google Docs 30 minutes and 12 secondswhere he, like, hashes out what characters should be like. 30 minutes and 15 secondsAnd, you know... 30 minutes and 17 secondsOr that we have, like, character bios or things like that. 30 minutes and 19 secondsLike, all that kind of stuff-- 30 minutes and 20 secondslike a lot of it is just very internal. 30 minutes and 23 secondsHis process is not, like, evident in real world artifacts. 30 minutes and 28 secondsAnd so, like, I've picked up on little bits. 30 minutes and 30 secondsBut, like, how he actually writes? I don't know. 30 minutes and 31 secondsBecause I've never seen him actually writing. 30 minutes and 35 seconds-It could go either direction. -What are you doing? 30 minutes and 37 secondsLike what are those objects? 30 minutes and 38 secondsSo, these are going to become the poles. 30 minutes and 41 secondsUm, so... 30 minutes and 42 secondsTIM: So, they are going to be, like, big poles laying flat on the ground 30 minutes and 44 secondsthat you TK up in the air like that? Or... 30 minutes and 46 secondsOkay, this is-- 30 minutes and 47 secondsAnd, like, we'll actually look at the game. 30 minutes and 48 secondsI'm like: "This is the situation. 30 minutes and 50 secondsThis is where the characters are going to be." 30 minutes and 51 secondsAnd that kind of stuff. And he writes to that. 30 minutes and 53 secondsYeah, I guess I would need to know exactly-- exactly what you are doing, 30 minutes and 56 secondsso that Raz or Dion can talk about it, like: 30 minutes and 58 seconds"You need to put that thing in the base." 31 minutes and 0 seconds-And you immediately-- you know? -Yep. 31 minutes and 2 secondsSETH: I don't know if it's a process of, like... 31 minutes and 5 secondsme having learned how he writes a little bit, 31 minutes and 8 secondshim having gained some sort of confidence 31 minutes and 10 secondsthat, like, I've thought things through a little bit before talking. 31 minutes and 13 secondsOr just, like, the sheer amount of stuff that we need to get done that he is like: 31 minutes and 17 seconds"All right, you know what? 31 minutes and 18 secondsIf designers figured this out, I'm going to go with it." 31 minutes and 21 secondsWell, that's, like... 31 minutes and 22 secondsHe implanted that version of himself. 31 minutes and 24 secondsThat's, like, an automaton. 31 minutes and 26 secondsZAK: That's the-- yeah, we can-- 31 minutes and 29 secondsSETH: I mean, the tricky thing with Tim is, like... 31 minutes and 31 secondsthe version that he just, like, spouts out instantly 31 minutes and 35 secondsis almost always, like... good. 31 minutes and 37 secondsHe is just... a very, like, fast creative, 31 minutes and 40 secondsuh, in a lot of ways. 31 minutes and 43 secondsTIM: The goat should have job. 31 minutes and 44 secondsLike, he's got a spoon in his mouth and he is trying to stir a bowl. 31 minutes and 46 seconds-He is, like, splashing around. -\[KEE LAUGHS\] 31 minutes and 48 secondsTIM: She's like: "No! I told you! Figure eights! Figure eights!" 31 minutes and 52 secondsZACH: I was going to add some gesture animations. 31 minutes and 54 secondsTIM: It's fun working with Seth, and... 31 minutes and 55 secondsIt's that kind of, um... 31 minutes and 57 seconds...development that I-- 31 minutes and 59 secondsyou know, you miss when things are really well-organized. 32 minutes and 1 secondThat just kind of like: 32 minutes and 2 seconds"What can we do? What can we get done in two weeks? 32 minutes and 4 secondsLet's put this in, and let's put that in!" 32 minutes and 5 secondsAnd you are just seeing what-- how much you can accomplish in two weeks. 32 minutes and 9 secondsSAM: No, because I asked for acorns that were crushed. 32 minutes and 12 secondsDidn't I? DIDN'T I, FUR-- 32 minutes and 14 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 32 minutes and 15 secondsI HATE TO YELL AT YOU, FUR LANCELOT, BUT I-- 32 minutes and 17 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 32 minutes and 22 secondsRaz-- Raz has crashed the scene right now. 32 minutes and 25 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 32 minutes and 26 secondsSo, I gotta go figure out what's going on there. 32 minutes and 28 secondsBut regardless, we can now do camera cuts, 32 minutes and 30 secondswe have dialogue in... 32 minutes and 31 secondsTIM: You start-- people start believing it. 32 minutes and 33 secondsI mean, obviously... hopefully, most people always believed in it. 32 minutes and 36 secondsBut you start seeing evidence of, like: 32 minutes and 37 seconds"Oh, yeah, I start really feeling like this is going to be great." 32 minutes and 40 seconds\[MUSIC\] 32 minutes and 41 secondsZAK: Oh, you've got a Bertha bomb and then he turned back into a Censor. 32 minutes and 47 seconds-Oh! -Nice! 32 minutes and 49 secondsWILL: Okay! 32 minutes and 51 secondsWell, he's gone now. 32 minutes and 53 seconds-What's going on here? -Oh, what?! 32 minutes and 55 secondsUnintentional, but good. 32 minutes and 58 seconds-ZAK: All right. -WILL: Yep. 33 minutes and 0 secondsWill, you looked like you had fun almost. 33 minutes and 2 seconds-I almost had fun. -Almost had fun? 33 minutes and 4 secondsZAK: Do you also want to take a five minute nap? 33 minutes and 5 secondsIs everyone just going to sit here in complete silence for a little bit? 33 minutes and 7 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 33 minutes and 9 seconds\[MUSIC\] 33 minutes and 10 secondsThey can get some good shots of us, like: 33 minutes and 12 seconds"Oh my god, they work so hard!" 33 minutes and 15 seconds\[MUSIC\] 33 minutes and 18 secondsASIF: And then the thing pops out. 33 minutes and 19 seconds\[SETH CHUCKLES\] 33 minutes and 24 secondsASIF: Got one of those hospital beds. 33 minutes and 25 secondsComes in, and then, you are, like, actually in a classroom. 33 minutes and 28 seconds-Cool! -And some other stuff. 33 minutes and 29 seconds-So, that's where it's at. -That's pretty interesting. 33 minutes and 31 secondsASIF: And then I'll keep doing the other stuff. 33 minutes and 32 secondsSETH: Cool. 33 minutes and 33 secondsI think it does really isolate it 33 minutes and 35 secondsand make it feel kind of like the very beginning-- tutorials, 33 minutes and 38 secondswhen Ford gives you a merit badge in the first game 33 minutes and 40 secondsYep. 33 minutes and 41 secondsJEREMY: He's been great so far! 33 minutes and 42 secondsLike, on the puzzle pilot it was awesome working with him. 33 minutes and 45 secondsAnd it was really cool. 33 minutes and 46 secondsAnd, like, the puzzles were really smart. 33 minutes and 49 secondsASIF: Uh, yeah. And this sort of just keeps going. 33 minutes and 52 secondsAnd there is more buttons to press and puzzles to solve. 33 minutes and 55 secondsBut I don't want to do it all in front of you guys right now, 33 minutes and 58 secondsbecause I do want to test this with some of you, so. 34 minutes and 0 secondsUh, hopefully you will figure out what to do next. 34 minutes and 1 secondHow far does it go? 34 minutes and 2 secondsLook, it just keeps going, and going, and going, and going. 34 minutes and 4 secondsASIF: Yeah, there is stuff to do. 34 minutes and 6 secondsAsif made Psychonauts 3, uh, in this room. 34 minutes and 9 secondsTUCKER: It's a Mega Man level! 34 minutes and 10 secondsJEREMY: But then it turned out to be such a cool puzzle experience 34 minutes and 12 secondsor, like, a little area or whatever. 34 minutes and 14 secondsIt was cool. 34 minutes and 15 secondsThe exploration one... 34 minutes and 18 seconds...was nuts. 34 minutes and 19 secondsWe feel more confident that it's, like, a cool level, 34 minutes and 22 secondsa cool little area to play. 34 minutes and 24 secondsJAMES: It's also nice to see an area get... 34 minutes and 26 secondsmore towards finished, 34 minutes and 28 secondsso that the people who normally play the game and are like: 34 minutes and 31 seconds"It's nonsense to me right now." 34 minutes and 33 seconds...can actually give useful feedback. 34 minutes and 36 secondsMATT: Looks like... 34 minutes and 38 secondsOkay! I get the hospital theme now. 34 minutes and 41 secondsI saw the IV racks and didn't-- 34 minutes and 46 secondsdidn't quite make the connection. 34 minutes and 47 secondsI saw the, um, wheelchairs and just thought, like: 34 minutes and 51 seconds"Oh, old people casinos." 34 minutes and 53 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 34 minutes and 55 secondsBut now I see hospital beds. 34 minutes and 57 secondsSo, okay. 34 minutes and 58 secondsYeah, I don't know. 35 minutes and 0 secondsI don't know if we've completely solved it. 35 minutes and 1 secondBecause I don't think, like, a lot of people understood 35 minutes and 2 secondsit was a hospital. 35 minutes and 4 secondsI don't know. Maybe it's enough, maybe it's not yet. 35 minutes and 6 secondsI don't know. 35 minutes and 8 secondsMaybe we get feedback and, like, maybe we'll adjust it then. 35 minutes and 11 secondsZAK: Uh, yeah, we are still working away, um, on our different pilot areas, 35 minutes and 15 secondsand gameplay, and art. 35 minutes and 16 secondsAnd so, the art one is starting to look very, very pretty, uh, and quite nice. 35 minutes and 19 secondsIt's the big Ford clerk one. 35 minutes and 21 secondsIt has a giant, robotic, multi-armed Ford in the middle, 35 minutes and 23 secondssorting mail and moving around. 35 minutes and 26 seconds\[MUSIC\] 35 minutes and 29 secondsLISETTE: I think the art pilot was, like, a really good moment where we were, like: 35 minutes and 33 seconds"Yep, this is going to look pretty goddamn awesome, if we can finish it." 35 minutes and 36 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 35 minutes and 39 secondsJEREMY: If it has more of a sheen and, like, wetness in areas. 35 minutes and 42 secondsAnd, yeah, right now it's very-- very even and flat. 35 minutes and 46 secondsAlso just thinking about effects around, like, all these joints moving around. 35 minutes and 49 secondsPshh! 35 minutes and 51 secondsI don't know if it's smoke, or steam, or sparks, 35 minutes and 54 secondsor whatever it needs to be. 35 minutes and 55 secondsYep. 35 minutes and 57 secondsJEREMY: It's very fun. 35 minutes and 58 seconds-This is too cool! -Yeah. 35 minutes and 59 seconds-Too cool! -This is fun. 36 minutes and 0 seconds-Anyway, yeah, I had to share that. -Exciting! 36 minutes and 2 secondsBecause it's the first time I saw it, it went in yesterday. 36 minutes and 4 secondsLooks good! 36 minutes and 6 secondsZAK: Tazio is also bringing special effects magic to it. 36 minutes and 10 secondsUm, with the maelstrom. 36 minutes and 12 secondsYes. 36 minutes and 13 secondsTAZIO: I mean, it mostly speaks for itself. 36 minutes and 15 secondsIt's a big maelstrom of mail. 36 minutes and 18 secondsWhoa-ow! 36 minutes and 22 seconds\[MUSIC\] 36 minutes and 26 secondsGABE: It felt near Alpha quality. 36 minutes and 28 secondsThat robot looked really cool. 36 minutes and 30 secondsMaterials were awesome, effects were awesome. 36 minutes and 32 secondsAnd then, it felt like a lot of floating platforms, 36 minutes and 34 secondswhich is always tricky. 36 minutes and 36 secondsSmall floating platforms specifically. 36 minutes and 38 seconds\[MUSIC\] 36 minutes and 44 secondsTIM: I think it's a natural time in the project 36 minutes and 46 secondsto have moral kind of pick up, 36 minutes and 48 secondsbecause you are in that middle part where everything's bad, 36 minutes and 50 secondsgame is not fun, and everything is ugly. 36 minutes and 52 secondsThat's just a natural-- 36 minutes and 53 secondsthat's just where you are, you know, pre-Alpha a lot of times. 36 minutes and 56 secondsAnd then, you just start climbing out of that hole. 36 minutes and 57 secondsYou put together your first few fun things, 36 minutes and 59 secondsand your first good-looking things, and we have, like... 37 minutes and 1 secondYou know, mail clerk Ford started to look good, and people were like: 37 minutes and 4 seconds"Oh, maybe this game is going to be looking good!" 37 minutes and 6 secondsAnd then we did the Questionable Area 37 minutes and 8 secondswhich has some funny jokes in there, and people were like: 37 minutes and 10 seconds"Maybe there'll be some funny jokes in here." 37 minutes and 11 seconds-\[TIM HUMS THE MEAT CIRCUS THEME\] -\[LAUGHTER\] 37 minutes and 13 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 37 minutes and 14 seconds\[TIM VOCALIZES SOUND EFFECTS\] 37 minutes and 17 secondsDONATELLA: Oooh! Cretino! 37 minutes and 19 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 37 minutes and 21 secondsFRAZIE: You guys! 37 minutes and 24 secondsRAY: Okay, so I-- So, yeah-- 37 minutes and 26 seconds-RAY: So, the end I'm not finished with. -Yay! 37 minutes and 28 secondsBut I want a little shot at the end where-- 37 minutes and 30 secondsI can't believe that works! 37 minutes and 31 secondsI wrote that to be impossible! 37 minutes and 33 seconds-Okay. -\[LAUGHTER\] 37 minutes and 34 secondsI'm like: "This will slow him down!" 37 minutes and 37 secondsRAY: Anyway, we haven't done the review with it yet. 37 minutes and 39 secondsAnd Tim-- this is the first time Tim is seeing it, so. 37 minutes and 41 secondsI love it! No, it's good, ship it! 37 minutes and 43 secondsIt just feels like a Psychonauts game. 37 minutes and 45 secondsIt's really cool to see. 37 minutes and 47 secondsBut a game that's for this next generation. 37 minutes and 50 secondsIt's-- it's great. I think it's neat. 37 minutes and 57 seconds-TIM: Awesome. -Cool. 37 minutes and 58 seconds-All right. -Awesome. 38 minutes and 0 secondsThe QA area? 38 minutes and 2 secondsI think that's pretty cool! 38 minutes and 3 secondsLike, with the family camp area. 38 minutes and 5 secondsIt's not all there, but just talking to the family members 38 minutes and 8 secondsand, like, interacting with them was really cool. 38 minutes and 10 secondsIt's kind of just, like, an area you can explore and, like... 38 minutes and 13 secondsYou kind of feel like you are in that world. 38 minutes and 20 secondsThat's kind of, like, what this is, like, working towards. 38 minutes and 23 secondsAll right, we are going to start. I think you were the fastest, Emily. 38 minutes and 25 seconds-EMILY: Okay! -All right. 38 minutes and 31 secondsWhoa-ow! 38 minutes and 33 secondsBut I mean that in a good way! 38 minutes and 35 secondsI mean that in a very good way! 38 minutes and 36 seconds\[ZAK LAUGHS\] 38 minutes and 38 secondsUh, it is-- so... 38 minutes and 39 secondsI will say-- I'm sure I've already said it, 38 minutes and 41 secondsbut, like... 38 minutes and 42 seconds...it's really good? 38 minutes and 43 secondsIt's really g-- Like, it's really funny. 38 minutes and 45 secondsIt's really charming, it's really well-paced out, it's dense. 38 minutes and 47 secondsThere is, like, lots of good writing in it. 38 minutes and 49 secondsAll the characters are adorable. 38 minutes and 51 secondsSo, like, it totally does feel like a Psychonauts game. 38 minutes and 54 secondsSo, that's great. 38 minutes and 55 seconds-Yes. -ZAK: Yay! 38 minutes and 56 secondsZAK: Yay, us! Yay, team! Go, team! 38 minutes and 59 seconds-ZAK: Making a good video game. -\[CLAPPING\] 39 minutes and 0 seconds\[MUSIC\] 39 minutes and 42 secondsJEREMY: Uh-oh, shit! 39 minutes and 44 secondsPAUL: Oh, god! 39 minutes and 45 secondsShit! I don't even know where it is now. 39 minutes and 47 seconds\[PAUL CHUCKLES\] 39 minutes and 50 secondsWhoops! 39 minutes and 51 secondsOh, well. 39 minutes and 53 secondsWe'll get it later. We'll get it later. Show transcript timestamps