--- title: PsychOdyssey EP33 - “We Wrote It Down” date: 2024-07-26T07:00:00-07:00 author: Tom Kiss canonical_url: "https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep33-we-wrote-it-down" section: DFTV Videos --- [Watch on YouTube: We Wrote It Down](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FojuFCVg_ng) [View transcript ](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey-ep33-we-wrote-it-down#transcript) # We Wrote It Down Double Fine reflects on the launch of Psychonauts 2 and the PsychOdyssey documentary series while looking to the future and a return to smaller projects. [ Download Video ](https://archive.org/details/Double_Fine_PsychOdyssey) Duration: 1 hour and 34 minutes and 34 seconds long Published: July 26th 2024 [psychodyssey](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychodyssey)[psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/psychonauts-2)[making of psychonauts 2](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/making-of-psychonauts-2)[documentary](https://www.doublefine.com/search/tag/documentary) [ NEXT EPISODE ](#) [![](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/news/2023/02/PsychOdyssey-Cover.jpg)**PsychOdyssey** 4KClosed Captions](https://www.doublefine.com/dftv/psychodyssey) ## Episode Stills Gallery - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Wedding](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-01-Wedding.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-01-Wedding.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Wedding") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Sarah](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-02-Sarah.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-02-Sarah.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Sarah") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Rusty](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-03-Rusty.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-03-Rusty.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Rusty") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Poster](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-04-Poster.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-04-Poster.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Poster") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Picnic](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-05-Picnic.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-05-Picnic.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Picnic") - [![Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Group](https://assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-06-Group.jpeg)](//assets.doublefine.com/shared/dftv/psychodyssey/stills/Double-Fine-PsychOdyssey-Episode-33-Stills-06-Group.jpeg "Double Fine PsychOdyssey - Episode 33 - Group") ## Episode Transcript 23 seconds\[BERT PLAYS THE PIANO\] 41 secondsTIM: Happy Monday to you! 43 secondsI hope you all recovered from that amazing party. 45 secondsWas that just last week? Did that just-- did that just happen? 48 secondsYeah! Thank you, Monica, and Denise, and Spaff, 51 secondsand everyone who helped make that amazing party happen. 58 secondsAnd it was awesome! It was so great. And it was nice to see all of you. 1 minute and 2 secondsAnd then, of course, we released the best game of all time. 1 minute and 4 secondsSo props to absolutely every single one of you here. 1 minute and 8 secondsPAUL: Remember the launch party? 1 minute and 10 secondsDid you go to the launch party? You were there. 1 minute and 11 secondsYeah. I was there, yeah. 1 minute and 12 secondsNo, I literally stood for, like, five hours 1 minute and 16 secondsand talked to people. 1 minute and 18 secondsSo my voice was gone and my legs were killing me. 1 minute and 22 secondsYeah, I remember I did not wear a mask. 1 minute and 24 secondsAnd that's one of the first times I didn't wear a mask out in public. 1 minute and 27 secondsYeah, a lot of people-- I mean, we were still in that period 1 minute and 29 secondswhere people had forgotten how to socialize. 1 minute and 31 secondsAnd I remember, like, half of the conversations started that way. 1 minute and 34 secondsPeople were just like: "Yeah, I don't remember how to talk to people. 1 minute and 36 secondsSorry if this is weird." 1 minute and 38 secondsBut, yeah, I think especially, like, by the time Tim gave his speech... 1 minute and 42 seconds...that mood had lifted. 1 minute and 44 secondsTIM: ...having the budget and resources 1 minute and 46 secondsto make sure things like the fishing mini-game got in the game. 1 minute and 48 secondsI didn't... 1 minute and 50 secondsUh, I didn't actually check. I just trust that-- 1 minute and 52 secondsEMILY: The finality of it all. 1 minute and 56 secondsLike: "Oh my gosh! These people! I see them, touch them. 1 minute and 58 secondsThey all look a little different too." 2 minutes and 0 secondsBecause... 2 minutes and 1 second...time changes you. 2 minutes and 3 secondsTIM: And that was great. 2 minutes and 4 secondsAnd I think people were also a little tired. 2 minutes and 6 secondsLike, everybody's been low key. 2 minutes and 8 secondsEveryone just felt kind of sweet, 2 minutes and 9 secondsand, like, warm, and nice to each other at that party. 2 minutes and 12 secondsI think we were watering down the drinks. 2 minutes and 13 secondsIt's like catharsis, right? 2 minutes and 15 secondsIt's like: "This thing is finally over. We can put it behind us. 2 minutes and 18 secondsWe'll never have to talk about it again." 2 minutes and 20 seconds\[MUSIC\] 3 minutes and 4 secondsNAOKO: So, we had the launch party. 3 minutes and 6 secondsAnd then we had, like, two weeks off. 3 minutes and 8 secondsSo, um... 3 minutes and 11 secondsI moved to New York that weekend. 3 minutes and 15 secondsAs much as I feel really proud of the work we did on Psychonauts 2, 3 minutes and 19 secondseveryone who worked on that game needed a break. 3 minutes and 21 secondsSort of like a recovery time for the team. 3 minutes and 24 secondsI think, like, creative recovery, emotional recovery. 3 minutes and 28 secondsI traveled. I went to Iceland. 3 minutes and 30 secondsBut I didn't-- I actually should've taken more time off. 3 minutes and 33 secondsI don't even remember. 3 minutes and 35 secondsLEVI: I got married at some point there. 3 minutes and 37 secondsThat was the new project, yeah. 3 minutes and 39 secondsI was also going through some personal stuff 3 minutes and 40 secondsin my life around then. 3 minutes and 41 secondsI got divorced. 3 minutes and 43 secondsOoh, I was also... 3 minutes and 44 secondsI was also secret pregnant. Do you know that? 3 minutes and 46 secondsPAUL: Oh, it was secret pregnant? 3 minutes and 48 secondsIt was secret pregnant. 3 minutes and 49 secondsEMILY: Ugh... 3 minutes and 51 secondsOh, Gigi. 3 minutes and 52 secondsHow's it going? 3 minutes and 54 secondsI was in two hours of meetings... 3 minutes and 57 secondsThat's too much. 3 minutes and 59 secondsEMILY: P2 baby-- There was a P2 baby boom. 4 minutes and 1 secondThat's a brand new one! 4 minutes and 3 secondsEMILY: It does give you the, like: 4 minutes and 4 seconds"I've been on this project for, like, five years. 4 minutes and 7 secondsAnd I'm not getting younger. 4 minutes and 8 secondsGotta have that baby now. 4 minutes and 11 secondsPAUL: Getting married this year. 4 minutes and 12 secondsYeah, getting married in, like, four months. 4 minutes and 15 secondsTim is officiating which I'm so excited for. 4 minutes and 18 secondsYeah, it's gonna be great. 4 minutes and 19 secondsI... 4 minutes and 20 secondsPAUL: Was alcohol involved in that decision? 4 minutes and 21 secondsI think I was probably drunk 4 minutes and 23 secondswhen I said I would officiate James' wedding. 4 minutes and 26 secondsI don't how. Recently I've been like: 4 minutes and 28 seconds"What... was I thinking agreeing to it? 4 minutes and 31 secondsWhat am I gonna say?" 4 minutes and 33 secondsOi, oi, oi. 4 minutes and 34 secondsPAUL: Let's just start. 4 minutes and 36 secondsI don't really even know what we are talking about, 4 minutes and 37 secondsbecause we are just doing this after having not talked to anybody 4 minutes and 39 secondsin, like, three years, so we are just gonna... 4 minutes and 40 secondsOh, you haven't talked to anybody?! 4 minutes and 42 secondsCLAM: Wow, this is, like... 4 minutes and 43 seconds...strange. 4 minutes and 44 secondsLike, being back behind this again. 4 minutes and 47 secondsIt's been awhile since we've done this. 4 minutes and 50 secondsPsychonauts 2. 4 minutes and 51 secondsPAUL: Remember that game? 4 minutes and 52 secondsBarely. 4 minutes and 54 secondsPAUL: I can't believe it's been 15 years. 4 minutes and 55 seconds-Yeah. -That's nuts. 4 minutes and 59 secondsTime... 5 minutes and 1 secondHow do we play this? Like I've been asleep for two years? 5 minutes and 3 secondsI just woke up. And, like, I was in a coma, like: 5 minutes and 4 seconds"What happened?! Did we ship the game?" 5 minutes and 6 secondsGEOFF: It ended. We shipped. 5 minutes and 8 secondsBut I didn't feel like I was done. 5 minutes and 10 secondsIt was very-- Probably the weirdest ending 5 minutes and 12 secondsto a game I've ever experienced. 5 minutes and 14 secondsEMILY: There is something that's a little anticlimactic about all of it. 5 minutes and 17 secondsBecause you've-- 5 minutes and 18 secondsYour life just is consumed by this... 5 minutes and 22 seconds...this project for so long. 5 minutes and 24 secondsAnd then it's out in the world, it feels... 5 minutes and 25 seconds...unreal. 5 minutes and 27 secondsYou are, like, in this unreal daze of: 5 minutes and 29 seconds"Oh, I should be working on Cassie. 5 minutes and 32 secondsWait, no, Cassie is done. Cassie is done." 5 minutes and 35 secondsI don't know. This is strange. 5 minutes and 36 secondsBut I really did like watching everyone 5 minutes and 39 secondsjust so joyous and reacting to it so positively, and... 5 minutes and 45 secondsIt felt nice, and weird, and all the emotions. 5 minutes and 49 secondsThe fact that we could launch the game and then immediately 5 minutes and 53 secondsthere are people streaming it, 5 minutes and 55 secondsso we could spend, like, so much time just watching people on Twitch... 6 minutes and 0 secondsThis game is unreal! 6 minutes and 1 secondI was like: "This is, like, an unlimited number of playtesters 6 minutes and 4 secondsthat are just sitting there, streaming things, 6 minutes and 6 secondsand giving me live commentary on Twitch?" 6 minutes and 9 secondsThis game is fucking cool, because-- all right. 6 minutes and 11 secondsWatching people play it on Twitch, and YouTube, and stuff, 6 minutes and 14 secondsI cried, you know. Like, it was awesome. 6 minutes and 17 secondsThere's been a lot more crying, 6 minutes and 19 secondsjust very emotional reactions to this game. 6 minutes and 22 secondsYou know, that's, like, a terrible thing to think about, 6 minutes and 25 secondsbut, like, it's true and it's something that everybody has to grapple with, right? 6 minutes and 29 secondsJEREMY: And people have been affected in so many ways that I didn't imagine, 6 minutes and 34 secondsand I think people on the team haven't imagined. 6 minutes and 40 secondsOh, man... 6 minutes and 42 secondsOh, Bob... 6 minutes and 44 secondsGEOFF: You know, I'm glad that we could approach a lot of these subjects 6 minutes and 46 secondswithout being dismissive or-- 6 minutes and 49 secondsJust treating them with the respect that they deserve. 6 minutes and 52 secondsRUSTY: And the fact that we could maybe even help somebody who actually may have 6 minutes and 56 secondsone of issues that's brought up in the game, 6 minutes and 58 secondsand they felt some sort of... I don't know, being seen, 7 minutes and 0 secondsor having some sort of catharsis by playing the game. 7 minutes and 4 secondsThat's the best. 7 minutes and 6 secondsDR. MICK: To every single person... 7 minutes and 8 seconds...that is about to come across this screen... 7 minutes and 15 seconds...this was wonderful. 7 minutes and 17 secondsAnd just rejoicing and enjoying that was... 7 minutes and 22 secondsI think that was really special. 7 minutes and 23 secondsI think that was really important for the team. 7 minutes and 25 secondsI think that was good for me to see. 7 minutes and 28 secondsWILL: I didn't know whether or not to, like, avoid looking at the reviews 7 minutes and 32 secondsor to just go right into it. 7 minutes and 35 secondsI tried to avoid and I failed. 7 minutes and 37 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 7 minutes and 39 secondsI think that's most people. 7 minutes and 42 secondsPAUL: They were pretty good though, weren't they? 7 minutes and 43 secondsYeah! 7 minutes and 44 secondsZACH: I think by the end of the game it was... 7 minutes and 47 seconds...so difficult to tell, like, if it was any good. 7 minutes and 50 secondsI think because we were just so in this bubble. 7 minutes and 52 secondsYou know, because I kind of felt at that point that I had no idea, 7 minutes and 56 secondslike: "You tell me." 7 minutes and 58 secondsThey all seemed to really, really love it. 8 minutes and 2 secondsI can't stop smiling, guys. 8 minutes and 3 secondsI'm so happy right now! 8 minutes and 5 secondsLEVI: And it was like-- 8 minutes and 6 secondsIt was like: "Okay, we did a good job. 8 minutes and 8 secondsWe did a good job." 8 minutes and 9 secondsIt was just, like, cool to hear people's impressions. 8 minutes and 14 secondsI had peers calling me, 8 minutes and 16 secondsand just telling me: "That's a great game. 8 minutes and 17 secondsAnd I really liked the sound you did here." 8 minutes and 20 secondsLike, that to me-- that got me. 8 minutes and 22 secondsThat was really good. 8 minutes and 23 secondsLike, for all the-- 8 minutes and 25 secondsthe journey that went into Compton being what it is in the finished game, 8 minutes and 29 secondslike, I really sought all that stuff out, and... 8 minutes and 32 secondsIt was just really interesting to see, 8 minutes and 33 secondsbecause I didn't expect that it would be for everybody. 8 minutes and 38 secondsI mean, nothing should be. 8 minutes and 40 secondsIt had its fans and I think those people really dug it. 8 minutes and 42 secondsSo, that was cool. 8 minutes and 45 secondsMOIRA: My older son, he absolutely loved it. 8 minutes and 48 secondsThat's-- you know, that's pretty cool 8 minutes and 50 secondsthat my kid wants me to come into his classroom and talk to his friends. 8 minutes and 53 secondsDid you ever imagine yourself being the cool parent? 8 minutes and 57 secondsI've never been a cool anyone! 8 minutes and 59 secondsIt's validating! Like: "Yeah, I do do that. 9 minutes and 1 secondThis is-- yeah. 9 minutes and 2 secondsI do all this stuff. 9 minutes and 3 secondsYeah, I made that that you see on the TV. 9 minutes and 5 secondsYou know, I made that." 9 minutes and 7 secondsSETH: And that was the goal. 9 minutes and 9 secondsYou know, build the thing that people are gonna... 9 minutes and 12 secondsremember and love. 9 minutes and 14 secondsAnd I think we got there. 9 minutes and 16 secondsNERDCUBED: Oh my god, is every single backer listed? 9 minutes and 19 secondsI'm gonna let this play out. 9 minutes and 20 secondsBecause every one of these fucking people... 9 minutes and 24 secondsevery one of these fucking people believed in Double Fine. 9 minutes and 29 secondsEvery single one of these people. 9 minutes and 30 secondsAnd I love them. 9 minutes and 32 secondsIt was just a-- 9 minutes and 33 secondsIt was a really nice... 9 minutes and 34 seconds...um, feeling. 9 minutes and 36 secondsCould have been-- it could have been much worse. 9 minutes and 39 secondsEMILY: Can you imagine us doing all that... 9 minutes and 41 seconds...and just everyone hated it? 9 minutes and 44 secondsThat happens a lot. 9 minutes and 46 secondsThat's, like, the dev life. 9 minutes and 48 secondsTAZIO: It's a miracle whenever that stuff works out. 9 minutes and 51 secondsJust, like, yeah... 9 minutes and 52 secondsThings like relationships, and making video games, like... 9 minutes and 55 secondsall of it is a little miracle, you know? 9 minutes and 57 secondsI understand if they don't want to make Psychonauts 3, 9 minutes and 59 secondsbecause they want to make something new. 10 minutes and 1 second-But also I really hope-- -But also, please, come on... 10 minutes and 3 seconds...this world is so incredible! 10 minutes and 5 secondsMaybe we'll make a third some day. 10 minutes and 7 secondsI'm down for a third. 10 minutes and 9 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 10 minutes and 10 secondsJust because, like, we have all these lessons learned, you know? 10 minutes and 13 secondsIt would be so... 10 minutes and 15 secondsI mean, it wouldn't be easy. 10 minutes and 16 secondsThat's actually-- I was about to say: 10 minutes and 17 seconds"It would be so easy to make Psychonauts 3." 10 minutes and 19 secondsThat would be fucking hard, dude. 10 minutes and 24 secondsNo... 10 minutes and 25 secondsUh, yeah, no. I'm sorry. 10 minutes and 27 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 10 minutes and 29 secondsOh, jeez. 10 minutes and 30 secondsOh, jeez. 10 minutes and 32 secondsJAMES: But there was a period of time of time 10 minutes and 34 secondsafter the game shipped where I was pretty depressed 10 minutes and 36 secondsabout how little impact I felt like I had on it. 10 minutes and 40 secondsJust, like, you know, there is parts of Bob's Bottles that I did 10 minutes and 43 secondsand that shipped in the way that I designed. 10 minutes and 46 secondsAnd same with Hollis. 10 minutes and 47 secondsBut outside of that I was like: 10 minutes and 48 seconds"Man, I, like, made six levels. 10 minutes and 51 secondsAnd I can only see, like, one or two total in the game that I made." 10 minutes and 57 secondsAnd that made me pretty depressed. 11 minutes and 0 secondsBut upon replaying it... 11 minutes and 1 secondThere is a lot of stuff in there that came from me that I'm very proud of. 11 minutes and 5 secondsLike Bob and Helmut's relationship. 11 minutes and 7 secondsYeah, I'm not sad anymore 11 minutes and 9 secondsabout the stuff that I made for the game that didn't make it in. 11 minutes and 14 secondsWhich is, I think, part of just being more mature as a developer. 11 minutes and 17 secondsAnd it happens all the time. 11 minutes and 19 secondsPAUL: What were you doing around that time? 11 minutes and 21 secondsMost of it was trying to organize post-morts. 11 minutes and 25 secondsYeah, we were doing post-morts and I didn't want to rush it. 11 minutes and 30 secondsBecause people, you know, taking time off, 11 minutes and 32 secondsa lot of people really needed to decompress. 11 minutes and 34 secondsIt was really hard for some people. 11 minutes and 36 secondsKind of just waiting for Tim here. 11 minutes and 39 secondsUm... 11 minutes and 41 secondsTim is not coming. 11 minutes and 42 secondsTim is not coming? He's ditched us? 11 minutes and 46 secondsHe was worried that people would feel 11 minutes and 48 secondsless free to say what was on your mind if he was here. 11 minutes and 53 secondsSo, instead... 11 minutes and 56 seconds...Seth will update him. 11 minutes and 59 secondsYeah, oh, okay. Okay, that makes sense. 12 minutes and 1 secondUm... 12 minutes and 2 secondsAlso in that-- 12 minutes and 4 secondsHave all of these been recorded by Paul? 12 minutes and 7 secondsNope, do you want him to go away? 12 minutes and 9 secondsWhat does everyone think here? 12 minutes and 11 secondsI don't think we should have to worry about being on camera 12 minutes and 15 secondsor being in a documentary when we are talking about process 12 minutes and 19 secondsand how to make things better. 12 minutes and 20 secondsYep. 12 minutes and 21 secondsIt would be great if we could just... 12 minutes and 26 seconds...have a work conversation. 12 minutes and 28 seconds-Yep, that sounds good. -Yeah, that sounds right. 12 minutes and 31 secondsAgreed. 12 minutes and 32 secondsAll right, well, uh... 12 minutes and 35 secondsThere is a button that says-- I asked him. 12 minutes and 39 secondsI figured that there will be some people who are just like: 12 minutes and 42 seconds"We just made it through this. I don't want to talk about this anymore. 12 minutes and 45 secondsI just want to move on." 12 minutes and 46 secondsSo, you are not gonna get good feedback from them. 12 minutes and 48 secondsAnd that's a perfectly fine way to feel. 12 minutes and 51 secondsYeah, I get it. Same. 12 minutes and 53 secondsWe are gonna start with communication and relationships. 12 minutes and 56 secondsThis one has a lot of "What can be improved." 13 minutes and 1 secondYou guys all remember the giant bonsai tree. 13 minutes and 3 seconds\[GEOFF LAUGHS\] 13 minutes and 7 secondsThat was, like, a perfect example of, like, 13 minutes and 9 secondswe went too far on one idea that we knew wouldn't work. 13 minutes and 12 secondsYou know, and then some people are just like: 13 minutes and 13 seconds"These things specifically I had a problem with. 13 minutes and 16 secondsI don't think we should do this anymore." 13 minutes and 18 secondsWe never seemed to have an honest conversation about scope. 13 minutes and 23 secondsPeriod. 13 minutes and 24 secondsNAOKO: "This-- I know we didn't mean to do this, but this was really bad. 13 minutes and 27 secondsThis was really bad for process or morale, or took us on this detour." 13 minutes and 31 secondsAnd that kind of specific stuff I really, really want. 13 minutes and 33 secondsLISETTE: I think as the Art Director through that period, 13 minutes and 36 secondsit was really frustrating to go into those reviews every week 13 minutes and 40 secondsand just see more pathing done. 13 minutes and 42 secondsLike, there was-- 13 minutes and 43 secondsNone of our notes being addressed, none of our feedback being addressed. 13 minutes and 47 secondsAnd I think a lot of that came from who shall not be named. 13 minutes and 52 secondsAnd the way he would kind of redirect, 13 minutes and 56 secondsyou know, the rest of the design team away from what we all agreed on. 13 minutes and 59 secondsLisette, thank you for helming all of this. 14 minutes and 2 secondsBecause before you got here it was kind of madness. 14 minutes and 6 seconds\[GEOFF LAUGHS\] 14 minutes and 8 secondsI know I'm definitely a lot more sane since you got on this project. 14 minutes and 12 secondsWhich is... 14 minutes and 15 secondswhich is amazing, so. 14 minutes and 18 secondsLISETTE: Thank you. 14 minutes and 27 secondsOh, yeah, that was-- made me really sad. 14 minutes and 32 secondsI didn't know that she was going. 14 minutes and 34 secondsI didn't really know what was going on. 14 minutes and 36 secondsBut, yeah, we were close. We worked good together. 14 minutes and 38 secondsYeah, I talk to her. 14 minutes and 40 secondsI think she is thriving. 14 minutes and 41 secondsI think she is... making moves. 14 minutes and 44 secondsI miss Lisette. 14 minutes and 46 secondsI miss my girl. 14 minutes and 47 secondsBut a lot of-- a lot of post-morts sometimes is, like... 14 minutes and 51 seconds...giving people the opportunity to kind of... 14 minutes and 55 seconds...you know, say what they have to say, so they can move on and get some closure. 15 minutes and 0 secondsThat was... 15 minutes and 2 secondsI always want post-morts to be more, like, helpful than they are. 15 minutes and 9 secondsHi, Dan! Long time no see. 15 minutes and 11 secondsHello! 15 minutes and 14 secondsTIM: Hello, everybody! 15 minutes and 15 secondsHello! Welcome to the final post-mortem. 15 minutes and 17 secondsWe've done so many post-mortems. 15 minutes and 19 secondsBig hand for Naoko. 15 minutes and 20 secondsRunning all these post-mortems. 15 minutes and 22 secondsAll these different groups, all these different departments 15 minutes and 23 secondshave come together and done pre-post-mortems. 15 minutes and 26 secondsand this is the final post-post-mortem 15 minutes and 28 secondsYou look at that project and there was a lot of... 15 minutes and 31 secondspain and suffering. 15 minutes and 33 secondsAnd every kind of choice that led to all the pain and suffering 15 minutes and 37 secondsin some way you can trace it all back to choices I made and me. 15 minutes and 40 secondsLike, what do you say to people when something like that is over. 15 minutes and 41 secondsIt's like, you know... 15 minutes and 43 secondsThis game came out really great. 15 minutes and 44 secondsIt's a really great game. I'm very, very proud of it. 15 minutes and 46 secondsI hope everyone who worked on it is proud of it. 15 minutes and 47 secondsIt's up for Game of the Year awards and that's amazing. 15 minutes and 51 secondsSo I have no regrets that way. 15 minutes and 53 secondsBut it caused us a lot of pain. 15 minutes and 55 secondsI think a lot of people were hurt on the project 15 minutes and 57 secondsand did things-- had experiences they didn't want to have. 16 minutes and 0 secondsIt's one way of saying I don't... 16 minutes and 2 secondsI don't think I would ever bring in an external project leader ever again. 16 minutes and 6 secondsIt's hard to find those rare, 16 minutes and 8 secondsthose rare people who understand what we are all about. 16 minutes and 10 secondsBut, um... 16 minutes and 11 secondsit did kind of... 16 minutes and 13 secondsforce us to, like, think about what we are all about. 16 minutes and 15 secondsI mean, I think this was an interesting experience where, like-- 16 minutes and 17 secondswhen some people-- we had a lot of new people on the project. 16 minutes and 21 secondsAnd a lot of new people in senior positions at the company. 16 minutes and 23 secondsAnd it forced us to kind of answer questions of like: 16 minutes and 25 seconds"Why do we do things in a certain way? 16 minutes and 27 secondsWhy do we do things in this crazy way?" 16 minutes and 29 secondsIt was interesting, because we hired a lot of people to work on Psychonauts 2. 16 minutes and 33 secondsAnd a lot of them came from other companies, 16 minutes and 35 secondsthey had their own way of doing things. 16 minutes and 36 secondsAnd usually if you hire one person at a time, 16 minutes and 37 secondsthey'll come here, they'll see all the weird ways that we do things, 16 minutes and 40 secondsand they'll kind of, like, see the good and the bad of it, 16 minutes and 43 secondsand then just adjust and fit in with that. 16 minutes and 45 secondsAnd, you know, you take one person at a time, 16 minutes and 46 secondsyou can kind of fit them in. 16 minutes and 48 secondsWe hired a bunch of people at once, and it was such a, like-- 16 minutes and 50 secondsthe center mass of was so much shifted 16 minutes and 53 secondsthat it actually got the whole thing, like, off track. 16 minutes and 55 secondsAnd not derailed like a train where it crashes. 16 minutes and 57 secondsAnd methane-- a big explosion. 16 minutes and 59 secondsBut like when your model train set is just kind of off the track a little bit 17 minutes and 2 secondsand everything is bumpier and slower than it should be. 17 minutes and 6 secondsUntil it hits that rerailing track and gets back on. 17 minutes and 8 secondsAnd that's the way the project was for a long time. 17 minutes and 10 secondsJust bumpy and slow. And we are like: 17 minutes and 11 seconds"Why is it bumpy and slow?" 17 minutes and 12 secondsI feel like I have been talking a lot. 17 minutes and 14 secondsI have some more things to talk about, but, um... 17 minutes and 18 secondsDoes anyone want to interject anything in there now? 17 minutes and 20 secondsNAOKO: Because the thing is if you don't say it at the post-mort, it's like... 17 minutes and 24 secondsLike, over a beer, yeah, you can say that stuff, 17 minutes and 26 secondsbut you are not gonna get a platform 17 minutes and 27 secondsto say it in front of the whole team ever again. 17 minutes and 29 secondsSo if you got some fire, you just-- this is-- 17 minutes and 32 secondsThis is it. 17 minutes and 33 seconds-Hello, Gigi. -Hello. 17 minutes and 35 secondsYeah. Hi, everybody. 17 minutes and 37 secondsYou know, I'm sad and a little disappointed 17 minutes and 42 secondsthat we had people crunch. 17 minutes and 44 secondsI know for certain a number of folks towards the end of Psychonauts 2 crunched. 17 minutes and 48 secondsWe tried not to. 17 minutes and 50 secondsThis happened to me on Psychonauts 2. 17 minutes and 52 secondsWorking on the cameras, 17 minutes and 53 secondslike, once again it's that thing where it's not just done or not done. 17 minutes and 56 secondsIt's in this gray area of, like: "How good is it?" 17 minutes and 59 secondsAnd so I had this self-imposed pressure this whole time of, like: 18 minutes and 3 seconds"It's not up to my quality bar. 18 minutes and 4 secondsI know I can do better than this. I want it to be better." 18 minutes and 6 secondsAnd so I would end up working... 18 minutes and 8 secondsmore than I should. 18 minutes and 9 secondsAARON: You know, knowing how many times 18 minutes and 11 secondswe had to adjust the ship date of the game. 18 minutes and 14 secondsThe thing about that, I think, that was particularly difficult 18 minutes and 18 secondsfor, you know, someone who is in the trenches working on stuff, 18 minutes and 21 secondsis just that... we didn't know that we were going to move the date 18 minutes and 24 secondsuntil we were really close to that date often times. 18 minutes and 27 secondsAnd that really encouraged crunching. 18 minutes and 29 secondsBut I still think it's-- 18 minutes and 31 secondsyou know, the onus is on the studio 18 minutes and 33 secondsin order to perpetuate a culture of putting people above the work, right? 18 minutes and 38 secondsUm... 18 minutes and 39 secondsBut then also there is-- there is some personal responsibility, 18 minutes and 42 secondsum, for not... 18 minutes and 45 seconds...not letting that get out of hand. 18 minutes and 47 secondsKEE: And sincerely, and especially as someone 18 minutes and 49 secondsthat was managing folks on this project. 18 minutes and 52 secondsIf I had given the impression, 18 minutes and 54 secondswhether explicitly or implicitly, that crunch was okay, 18 minutes and 57 secondsI'm so sorry. 18 minutes and 58 secondsI... I really apologize. 19 minutes and 1 secondIf that's how you felt, then I-- 19 minutes and 5 secondsKEE: We, value-wise, know we shouldn't do it. 19 minutes and 9 secondsSo, right now, I-- I guarantee there is a lot of-- 19 minutes and 11 secondsthere is a lot of studios that are shipping remotely, 19 minutes and 13 secondsthere is a lot of people crunching in silence. 19 minutes and 15 secondsIt's a good view of how a studio like Double Fine tries to-- 19 minutes and 20 secondsBecause we have the best of intentions... 19 minutes and 22 secondsStill happens. 19 minutes and 23 secondsSo every studio can say they have the best of intentions. 19 minutes and 26 seconds"How do we make that not happen?" 19 minutes and 28 secondsAnd I think that's an evolving conversation. 19 minutes and 31 secondsI don't know, maybe I was lucky, but I didn't-- 19 minutes and 34 secondsI didn't feel a ton of pressure to work a lot more. 19 minutes and 39 secondsAnd in fact nobody-- nobody really told me: 19 minutes and 42 seconds"You need-- you need to do this." 19 minutes and 44 secondsAnd I've been at studios where we've been told: 19 minutes and 46 seconds"You need to do this." 19 minutes and 49 secondsJOSH: It was a stark contrast 19 minutes and 51 secondsto other studios that I've worked at, 19 minutes and 53 secondswhich I won't name. 19 minutes and 55 seconds\[COUGHS\] 19 minutes and 56 secondsI hope it burns in a fire. 19 minutes and 58 secondsThey manipulate you. 19 minutes and 59 secondsI remember one time when I was working there, 20 minutes and 1 secondthey lined us up in a room, not bigger than this one, 20 minutes and 4 secondsand the lead designer sitting at a table, everybody is standing, 20 minutes and 6 secondsbecause it's standing room only, and he goes: 20 minutes and 8 seconds"Who is coming in this weekend? We'll start with you." 20 minutes and 11 secondsThere is a practice in the industry 20 minutes and 12 secondsof building crunch into production timelines. 20 minutes and 17 secondsAnd long-term that means you are losing this institutional knowledge 20 minutes and 23 secondsby burning people out. 20 minutes and 24 secondsI saw my boyfriend at the time, my now husband, work six months of crunch, 20 minutes and 29 secondsseven days a week. 20 minutes and 30 secondsAnd the toll it physically took on him, 20 minutes and 33 secondsjust to look at him, 20 minutes and 35 secondswas so bad that I begged him to just leave the company. 20 minutes and 39 secondsAnd here it's different. 20 minutes and 40 secondsIt's not abusive. That's the key element. 20 minutes and 43 secondsIt's a lot more self-imposed here. 20 minutes and 45 secondsLike, right towards the end of the project 20 minutes and 48 secondsthere was a lot of extra hours I put in as the lead 20 minutes and 50 secondsto make sure that the people 20 minutes and 52 secondson the team that I was on didn't have to put in extra hours. 20 minutes and 55 secondsAnd I have a giant list of bugs 20 minutes and 58 secondsthat now I have to spend my weekend cleaning up. 21 minutes and 3 secondsWhich I've been doing for the last two months, so. 21 minutes and 6 secondsYeah, no, it was like an open secret. 21 minutes and 10 secondsLike, everyone knew he was doing too much. 21 minutes and 13 secondsAnd many people told him, like: "You are doing too much." 21 minutes and 15 secondsGeoff, bugs will roll over. 21 minutes and 17 secondsSo you do not have to do them over the weekend. 21 minutes and 20 secondsNo, I understand that. 21 minutes and 22 secondsBut-- but there is also work that has to-- 21 minutes and 24 secondsthat I have to do. 21 minutes and 26 secondsSo that's also a tricky situation. 21 minutes and 28 secondsIt's like: "How do you tell a willing person no?" 21 minutes and 31 secondsTIM: Okay, Kevin, hi. 21 minutes and 33 secondsHi, yeah, I just want to talk about the schedule thing going forward. 21 minutes and 37 secondsIn that I'm going to be pushing for us to be very honest with ourselves 21 minutes and 43 secondsabout scope and schedule going forward. 21 minutes and 46 secondsMy biggest push on those being... 21 minutes and 49 secondsto have actually sane timelines. 21 minutes and 52 secondsYep, um... 21 minutes and 54 secondsYeah, so, our VP of Development, Caryl, departed. 21 minutes and 59 secondsUm, thank you, all, for everything. 22 minutes and 2 secondsIt's been great. 22 minutes and 3 seconds-Thanks, Caryl. -Thank you, Caryl. 22 minutes and 5 secondsSee you all soon. 22 minutes and 7 seconds-Thank you. -Bye! 22 minutes and 8 secondsKEVIN: And Tim asked me to essentially step into that role. 22 minutes and 13 secondsSo, yeah, going from Senior Producer to Director of Development for the studio. 22 minutes and 18 secondsYou know, throughout my career, 22 minutes and 20 secondsyou know, you have those moments where you are like: 22 minutes and 21 seconds"Well, if I was in charge, I would..." 22 minutes and 23 secondsAnd then, all of a sudden, I found myself in charge. 22 minutes and 24 secondsAnd so, now I guess I should start to do those things. 22 minutes and 28 secondsWe now have Kevin as our Director of Development. 22 minutes and 30 secondsAnd I think people trust him 22 minutes and 32 secondsand feel like they can talk to him about things. 22 minutes and 33 secondsAnd I think they see him 22 minutes and 34 secondsas a benevolent force in the company which is great. 22 minutes and 37 secondsAnd why is he working out? 22 minutes and 39 secondsBecause he worked here beforehand and we knew we all liked him! 22 minutes and 45 secondsThat's funny, huh? Yeah. 22 minutes and 47 secondsMALENA: Kevin... 22 minutes and 49 seconds...is amazing. 22 minutes and 50 secondsHe is probably the first person ever in this role, 22 minutes and 53 secondsand I've been through them all, 22 minutes and 55 secondswhere I feel safe telling him what my emotional state is. 23 minutes and 0 secondsI remember when he started on RAD and I was like: 23 minutes and 2 seconds"Wow! He is the grown-up!" 23 minutes and 5 secondsHow many Dio shirts do you both own? 23 minutes and 7 secondsI've got-- I have a couple. 23 minutes and 9 secondsYou have a couple? 23 minutes and 11 secondsAnd there is just, you know, some aspects of how Psychonauts 2 ended 23 minutes and 17 secondsthat, you know, we are gonna feel for... 23 minutes and 21 secondsthe next two or three years. 23 minutes and 24 secondsHey, Emily. 23 minutes and 26 secondsHi! Um, I kind of-- 23 minutes and 28 secondsI kind of want to go back in time for just a second 23 minutes and 32 secondsand talk about this, uh-- 23 minutes and 34 secondsthis one particular meeting, um... 23 minutes and 37 secondsright before the Christmas party actually. 23 minutes and 40 secondsSomeone had brought up the-- 23 minutes and 43 secondsyou know, the big meeting with Amy, and Tim, and... 23 minutes and 47 secondsAnd I don't know if I feel like it ever got resolved. 23 minutes and 51 secondsIt didn't feel like her concerns were answered. 23 minutes and 54 secondsAnd a lot of it seemed like an older crew was like: 23 minutes and 57 seconds"This isn't crunching. You don't know what crunching is. 24 minutes and 0 secondsDid we resolve those two generations feelings? 24 minutes and 4 secondsDid we, like... 24 minutes and 8 secondsAARON: I remember being in that meeting... 24 minutes and 9 secondsand feeling really strongly like I wanted to say something, 24 minutes and 13 secondsand feeling really disappointed in myself after that meeting, 24 minutes and 15 secondsand feeling like I had failed 24 minutes and 17 secondsto kind of do my duty to-- 24 minutes and 20 secondsto speak up for what I thought was important. 24 minutes and 28 secondsI don't know, that meeting wasn't about, like, crunch culture. 24 minutes and 30 secondsIt was about feeling not heard. 24 minutes and 32 secondsThere was-- there was deeper stuff in that meeting, you know? 24 minutes and 34 secondsPAUL: Yeah, yeah. 24 minutes and 37 secondsDo you have thoughts about that-- 24 minutes and 40 secondsthat meeting, I guess. 24 minutes and 42 secondsI have thoughts about that meeting, yeah. 24 minutes and 48 secondsThat-- that's my question, Tim. 24 minutes and 50 secondsTIM: The crunch meeting that we had on the project 24 minutes and 52 secondsI really regret having. 24 minutes and 53 secondsI should not have had that meeting. 24 minutes and 54 secondsSomeone posted something in Slack 24 minutes and 56 secondsand I was naive enough to think like: 24 minutes and 57 seconds"Hey, let's just bring this up and we'll just settle it really quick." 25 minutes and 0 secondsAnd it was terrible. It span out of control. 25 minutes and 2 secondsAnd it-- it left bad feelings that I think... 25 minutes and 4 seconds...are with the company forever. 25 minutes and 7 secondsI mean, I was coming from-- 25 minutes and 9 secondsI was reacting from a place-- 25 minutes and 10 secondsI felt like I was being accused of a future crime. 25 minutes and 12 secondsLike, uh... 25 minutes and 13 seconds"Okay, you-- you have crunched us, 25 minutes and 15 secondsyou've crunched us very hard in the future 25 minutes and 17 secondsand that's gonna happen." 25 minutes and 18 seconds"This is what you guys are gonna do." 25 minutes and 19 secondsAnd I knew that we wouldn't. 25 minutes and 21 secondsExcept for some people say that we did. 25 minutes and 23 secondsBut I was having a very personal, like, emotional reaction 25 minutes and 25 secondsto feeling like... 25 minutes and 27 secondseverything that we worked so hard to do as a company was being kind of... 25 minutes and 31 seconds...like, disregarded. 25 minutes and 32 secondsBecause I knew what it was like before. 25 minutes and 34 secondsYou know, and I'd been through it. 25 minutes and 36 secondsAnd I saw the efforts that were being made 25 minutes and 39 secondsto try and change things. 25 minutes and 42 secondsI started feeling-- I started getting kind of defensive. 25 minutes and 45 secondsAnd I thought that it was best that I didn't say anything. 25 minutes and 48 secondsRUSTY: Yeah, it's weird, because I sort of had-- 25 minutes and 51 secondssort of that feeling too, 25 minutes and 52 secondsbut Amy was coming from an honest place. 25 minutes and 56 secondsIt doesn't help to say: "You don't know how bad bad can be." 25 minutes and 59 secondsYou know? 26 minutes and 1 secondWhat would you like to hear about that meeting? 26 minutes and 3 secondsI mean, I guess I just want... 26 minutes and 6 secondslike, some clear consensus between, like... 26 minutes and 11 secondsI don't know if it's generational divide or just ideology... 26 minutes and 14 secondsCLAM: I think people wanted to hear something. 26 minutes and 16 secondsI think they wanted to hear that, like... 26 minutes and 19 seconds...you know, lines were crossed. 26 minutes and 22 secondsAnd... 26 minutes and 24 seconds...maybe at least, like, some sort of apology for that was owed. 26 minutes and 28 secondsLike, an apology that's not necessarily like: "I was wrong." 26 minutes and 33 secondsBut like: "What I did should have-- could have been done differently. 26 minutes and 37 secondsAnd I don't wish for that to happen again." 26 minutes and 40 secondsAnd I don't know if that ever got addressed. 26 minutes and 43 secondsI remember it kind of went in circles a little bit. 26 minutes and 47 secondsI don't know that he needed to apologize for it. 26 minutes and 49 secondsBut I think there were people that felt like... 26 minutes and 51 seconds...you know, that that would have helped them, you know? 26 minutes and 53 secondsAnd... 26 minutes and 55 secondsyou know, people were trying to talk about it, 26 minutes and 58 secondsbut it seemed like everyone had put it-- 27 minutes and 0 secondsnot put it behind them, 27 minutes and 2 secondsbut just, like, weren't ready even to address it full-on, you know? 27 minutes and 7 secondsBut, you know, having that brought up... 27 minutes and 10 secondsI don't know what I can say about that one, Emily. 27 minutes and 12 secondsLike, I really don't know what I can say about that meeting. 27 minutes and 13 secondsI was very frustrated. 27 minutes and 14 secondsI didn't like how it went. 27 minutes and 16 secondsBut I do-- I do understand. 27 minutes and 18 secondsBecause there was a time here where if you went home, 27 minutes and 20 secondsyou were judged for it. 27 minutes and 22 secondsAnd when the food came in, 27 minutes and 24 secondsyou weren't asked if you were staying. 27 minutes and 25 secondsYou were staying, you know? 27 minutes and 26 secondsThe food was brought in for everybody, 27 minutes and 28 secondsbecause you were staying. 27 minutes and 29 secondsI had my first son on Psychonauts 27 minutes and 32 secondsand I took a week off, you know, and I was back here. 27 minutes and 35 secondsWe had several babies during Psychonauts, yeah. 27 minutes and 39 secondsAnd all those-- all those guys... 27 minutes and 41 seconds...missed, you know, 27 minutes and 43 secondscouple years of their kids life probably because of that, so. 27 minutes and 47 secondsTIM: But I think, like... 27 minutes and 49 secondsthe truth of that meeting is that, like, someone was saying: 27 minutes and 51 seconds"Look, we have this much game to make. 27 minutes and 54 secondsAnd we have this much time left. 27 minutes and 56 secondsSo, how are you gonna make this? 27 minutes and 57 secondsYou are gonna make this up by crunching the team." 27 minutes and 59 secondsAnd Caryl was saying: "No, we are gonna ship here." 28 minutes and 1 secondAnd everyone of course was saying: "That's not true." 28 minutes and 2 secondsAnd in the meeting I'm so uncomfortable, 28 minutes and 4 secondsbecause I'm like: "Everyone knows that's not true, 28 minutes and 5 secondsbut I don't want to, you know, undermine Caryl in a meeting." 28 minutes and 8 secondsBut, like: "I don't want to-- I wish she hadn't said that. 28 minutes and 10 secondsBecause we-- we do have this much work to do." 28 minutes and 11 secondsWe are not gonna get to here by crunching. 28 minutes and 13 secondsWe are gonna get to here by us going... 28 minutes and 15 secondshat in hand, and spreadsheet in hand, 28 minutes and 17 secondsto Matt Booty and saying: "This is what is right for the game, 28 minutes and 19 secondsis to pay this much more money to get a great game at the end." 28 minutes and 22 secondsAnd that's what we did. 28 minutes and 24 secondsBut I-- I wish I had said things differently. 28 minutes and 27 secondsAnd I wish I just not let it go on. 28 minutes and 30 secondsJuli Gregg. 28 minutes and 32 secondsAs a newer employee, I have no idea 28 minutes and 33 secondswhat this meeting that we are talking about for most of this meeting is. 28 minutes and 37 secondsTIM: It was great. You should have been there. 28 minutes and 38 secondsJULI: It feels like there is something not being said. 28 minutes and 40 secondsAnd then, like, ten people messaged me and were like: 28 minutes and 43 seconds"We can talk after about the meeting." 28 minutes and 45 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 28 minutes and 47 secondsAnd I was just like: "What happened?!" 28 minutes and 50 secondsAnd I felt like my year-and-a-half on P2 was great. 28 minutes and 54 secondsI was like-- everything went well, 28 minutes and 55 secondslike, I've been working with Kee. 28 minutes and 57 secondsThere were stressful moments, but, like, it was-- 28 minutes and 59 secondsit was a lot of fun, so. 29 minutes and 1 secondCLAM: And so, yeah, I don't know, maybe there is going to be a post-- 29 minutes and 4 secondspost-follow-up to the... 29 minutes and 8 secondsYeah, or maybe this is just how it's happening. 29 minutes and 10 secondsLike, people are getting to finally spit it out here. 29 minutes and 13 secondsTIM: And I don't know what else to say. 29 minutes and 15 secondsNaoko, do you have anything else to close it up... 29 minutes and 16 seconds...that you want to say? 29 minutes and 19 secondsI want to say thank you. 29 minutes and 21 secondsAnd I'm really glad the game is being received well, 29 minutes and 24 secondsand that everyone is enjoying it, 29 minutes and 26 secondsand you guys are being celebrated for all the fucking hard work you put in. 29 minutes and 29 secondsIt was... 29 minutes and 31 secondsIt was a lot of work! 29 minutes and 32 secondsYou guys worked really hard! 29 minutes and 34 secondsTIM: Yeah, you wouldn't know it from watching the documentary. 29 minutes and 36 secondsWe were nominated for Game of the Year. 29 minutes and 38 secondsI don't know if you saw this. 29 minutes and 39 secondsA lot of this-- this documentary, 29 minutes and 40 secondsthey only tell you what they want you to hear. 29 minutes and 41 secondsthey don't tell you the good things. 29 minutes and 43 secondsPRESENTER: Welcome to the Game Awards 2021! 29 minutes and 47 secondsNow, here is your host, Geoff Keighley! 29 minutes and 52 secondsBest Narrative. 29 minutes and 53 secondsMy name is Raz! 29 minutes and 55 secondsAnd today is my first day on the job. 30 minutes and 3 secondsAnd the Game Award for Best Narrative goes to... 30 minutes and 7 secondsHa! Marvel's-- 30 minutes and 9 secondsWILL: You are fucking with me! What?! 30 minutes and 11 secondsJAMES: In the moment it's fun to be like: 30 minutes and 13 seconds"Fuck you, Guardians of the Galaxy! 30 minutes and 15 secondsHow could you have a better story than Psychonauts?" 30 minutes and 17 secondsBut... it's a pretty good game. So, like... 30 minutes and 19 secondsI guess it was, like, Guardians-- 30 minutes and 20 secondsGuardians won a lot of our stuff. 30 minutes and 22 seconds"Our stuff." 30 minutes and 23 secondsWon over us. 30 minutes and 25 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 30 minutes and 26 secondsJOSHUA: It's cool, they are just saving us for Game of the Year. 30 minutes and 29 secondsGIGI: Hell, yeah! 30 minutes and 30 seconds\[MUSIC\] 30 minutes and 42 secondsZAHRA: This is awesome! 30 minutes and 45 secondsAnd the 2021 Game of the Year is... 30 minutes and 49 secondsIt Takes Two. 30 minutes and 50 seconds-WILL: Okay, wow! -GIGI: What?! 30 minutes and 52 secondsNAOKO: I didn't see that coming. 30 minutes and 56 secondsPAUL: It's all vote-based though, right? 30 minutes and 57 seconds-Like, the whole thing. -Yeah, yeah. 30 minutes and 58 secondsI mean, it's just a popularity contest... 31 minutes and 0 seconds...more than it is, like, sane decision making. 31 minutes and 3 secondsTIM: Nominated for the Game Awards. 31 minutes and 4 secondsWe were nominated for, like, seven Game Awards. 31 minutes and 6 secondsAnd we didn't get any of them. That was kind of sad. 31 minutes and 7 secondsThat would have made a much happier ending to the story. 31 minutes and 10 secondsMe standing-- Can we greenscreen me on stage? 31 minutes and 12 secondsGoing like: "Thank you for Game of the Year." 31 minutes and 14 secondsPAUL: That's gonna be in this episode. 31 minutes and 16 secondsBut just-- 31 minutes and 17 secondsjust being nominated for Game of the Year obviously is a big deal. 31 minutes and 21 secondsI guess I don't really care. 31 minutes and 23 secondsBecause I'm still proud of what we did. 31 minutes and 25 secondsAnd I feel like we had so many obstacles to getting to that point 31 minutes and 29 secondsthat just getting it out and having it be as good as it was... 31 minutes and 34 secondswas... 31 minutes and 36 secondswas enough. 31 minutes and 37 secondsI wanted it real bad for everyone else's sake. 31 minutes and 42 secondsYou know? 31 minutes and 43 secondsAnd we have, like, all of the-- 31 minutes and 46 secondsThe cabinet is already filled with awards, 31 minutes and 48 secondsso I don't know, like, where we would put any other awards. 31 minutes and 51 secondsWe'd have to build a second cabinet. 31 minutes and 53 secondsWe won the Spawnies... 31 minutes and 55 secondsGame of the Year. 31 minutes and 56 secondsAnd we won the New York Critics, 31 minutes and 57 secondsVideo Game Critics 31 minutes and 58 secondsGame of the Year. 32 minutes and 5 secondsJAMES: I mean, it feels crazy to be upset that we didn't win more awards. 32 minutes and 8 secondsLike, until... 32 minutes and 10 seconds...July of 2021 it was like: "This game is a fucking disaster." 32 minutes and 14 secondsI mean, it was bad. 32 minutes and 15 secondsI don't even remember the middle of that project. 32 minutes and 16 secondsIt seemed, like, trending bad. 32 minutes and 19 secondsLike, I'd be in the level reviews, I don't know what to say, 32 minutes and 21 secondsbecause I don't see how this is going to be good ever, 32 minutes and 23 secondsbecause this level is bad. 32 minutes and 24 secondsAnd there was a point during that, 32 minutes and 26 secondsduring that darkest point where I felt like 32 minutes and 28 secondsif I could have just Men in Black-ed everybody 32 minutes and 30 secondswith a little pen, the entire world, like: 32 minutes and 32 seconds"Forget that we announced Psychonauts 2." 32 minutes and 34 secondsI would have... 32 minutes and 35 secondsjust... 32 minutes and 37 seconds...backed out of it, because I felt like we couldn't do it. 32 minutes and 39 secondsBut there was no going back at that point. 32 minutes and 43 secondsPAUL: How did you do it then? 32 minutes and 45 seconds\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 32 minutes and 46 secondsUm... 32 minutes and 48 secondsHow did we do it? 32 minutes and 51 secondsAll the levels... 32 minutes and 52 secondsevery single level... 32 minutes and 54 secondswas rebuilt. 32 minutes and 55 secondsThe Psychonauts 2 that got shipped... 32 minutes and 57 secondsis the Psychonauts 2 that got built 32 minutes and 59 secondsbetween summer 2019 and summer 2021. 33 minutes and 5 secondsAnd everything before that was just, like, 33 minutes and 7 secondsa bunch of pre-production rough sketches. 33 minutes and 10 secondsAnd there was a different game that we were building before then. 33 minutes and 13 secondsBut it was a very different Psychonauts 2. 33 minutes and 15 secondsTIM: It was just a lot of people. 33 minutes and 16 secondsA lot of people. I mean, the team really stepped up. 33 minutes and 19 secondsBut the secret weapon in the end game... 33 minutes and 22 secondsamong many-many secret weapons, 33 minutes and 23 secondswas Seth, I think. 33 minutes and 24 secondsLike, he was just one of the designers. 33 minutes and 27 secondsAnd I was so touchy then about who is in charge. 33 minutes and 29 secondsAnd it took me a long time to officially make him the Lead Designer. 33 minutes and 32 secondsBut I always knew, like: 33 minutes and 34 seconds"This is the designer that's focused on solutions. 33 minutes and 36 secondsHe is not in fights with anybody. 33 minutes and 38 secondsHe is not trying to have any sort of agenda with anything. 33 minutes and 41 secondsHe just, like, wants the game to be good. 33 minutes and 42 secondsAnd he is always thinking about ways to make it better. 33 minutes and 45 secondsPAUL: Were there MVPs in your mind? 33 minutes and 47 secondsPeople that did incredible things 33 minutes and 49 secondsthat maybe didn't get the recognition they should have. 33 minutes and 52 secondsOLIVER: I mean, Kee was the only one, as far as I can tell, 33 minutes and 54 secondsthat was keeping this whole project together 33 minutes and 56 secondsand actually making sure that it happens. 33 minutes and 58 secondsOh! 33 minutes and 59 secondsOh, you are just gonna drop that question on me. 34 minutes and 3 secondsWho works here? 34 minutes and 5 secondsOliver was a big one. 34 minutes and 6 secondsGeoff! 34 minutes and 8 secondsClam. 34 minutes and 9 seconds-Naoko. -Jeremy French. 34 minutes and 11 secondsJP was fantastic. 34 minutes and 14 secondsOLIVER: But, like, for Kee specifically, 34 minutes and 15 secondsI think, yeah-- 34 minutes and 16 secondsI don't know how he does it. Like, it's-- 34 minutes and 19 secondsStaying so level-headed in those situations... 34 minutes and 22 secondsit's not easy. 34 minutes and 24 secondsCOVID and working remotely... 34 minutes and 27 seconds...and that easily could have broken us. 34 minutes and 29 secondsBut one of the most... 34 minutes and 32 secondsproud feelings things that I could have about the production 34 minutes and 35 secondsis how everyone adjusted, and reacted, and really came together 34 minutes and 40 secondswhen we could have fallen apart. 34 minutes and 43 secondsAnd that is the way that we work together. 34 minutes and 44 secondsThat is how I know Double Fine to be. 34 minutes and 47 secondsAnd that's how I want us to be kind of going-- 34 minutes and 50 secondsgoing into the future. 34 minutes and 52 secondsGood job on the game! 34 minutes and 55 secondsAnd I'll see you tomorrow. 34 minutes and 58 secondsOh, yeah! 34 minutes and 59 secondsBye, Lauren! 35 minutes and 0 secondsJAMES: Like, you know, Tim says in his speech, 35 minutes and 2 secondswhich, like, gets me misty every time I watch it. 35 minutes and 4 secondsBut, like, it's a lot of people's favorite game ever. 35 minutes and 8 secondsAnd that's crazy. 35 minutes and 9 secondsIt's so trite, but it's, like-- 35 minutes and 10 secondsthat's worth a lot more than an award from Geoff Keighley. 35 minutes and 14 secondsNot that I don't love Geoff Keighley, but... 35 minutes and 16 secondsmuch more affected by people on Discord or Twitch 35 minutes and 19 secondssaying how much they care about it. 35 minutes and 22 secondsTIM: Yeah, so we are done. Done talking about Psychonauts. 35 minutes and 24 secondsWe can't talk about Psychonauts anymore. 35 minutes and 25 secondsIt's illegal to talk about Psychonauts now. 35 minutes and 26 secondsMoving on! 35 minutes and 27 secondsNext game! What are we gonna talk about? 35 minutes and 29 secondsI think that's what you are waiting for, where it is like: 35 minutes and 33 seconds"When can I let go... of this?" 35 minutes and 36 secondsAnd I do, because I... 35 minutes and 38 secondsI do want to let go of it, 35 minutes and 39 secondsbecause you need room for the next thing. 35 minutes and 43 secondsIn the two years since we shipped Psychonauts 2, 35 minutes and 45 secondswe've launched... 35 minutes and 47 secondssome more games. 35 minutes and 49 secondsAll new games. Some new project leaders. 35 minutes and 51 secondsPAUL: We are back to the style of small game development at Double Fine. 35 minutes and 54 secondsMm-hmm, mm-hmm. 35 minutes and 56 secondsEMILY: Making... 35 minutes and 57 secondsthese... 35 minutes and 59 secondswonderful, human existence games is... 36 minutes and 3 seconds...really important to me, and what I want to do. 36 minutes and 7 secondsBut I'm very tired, I'll just tell you that. 36 minutes and 10 secondsAARON: Things feel very different now than they used to. 36 minutes and 13 secondsPAUL: For the first time in the studio's life... 36 minutes and 15 seconds...it's never really been... 36 minutes and 16 secondsBroke? 36 minutes and 17 secondsJAMES: And now we have a lot of time. 36 minutes and 19 secondsWe have a lot of trust from Microsoft it seems. 36 minutes and 22 secondsI'm drawing some really weird stuff right now and... 36 minutes and 25 secondsnobody has really told me to stop. 36 minutes and 27 secondsThey kind of tell me that it's not weird enough here. 36 minutes and 30 secondsAnd that's what scares me. 36 minutes and 32 secondsAARON: In some ways it feels almost uncomfortable. 36 minutes and 34 secondsBecause we are so used to... moving so quickly 36 minutes and 37 secondsthat slowing down just a little bit, it feels like-- 36 minutes and 39 secondslike you are making a mistake or you are missing out on something. 36 minutes and 43 secondsDisorienting in some way, because there isn't... 36 minutes and 46 secondsas strict deadlines as there was before. 36 minutes and 49 secondsI felt really unproductive for a long time. 36 minutes and 52 secondsJust because of that, like-- that feeling of like, you know: 36 minutes and 55 seconds"Task, task, task, task, task." 36 minutes and 56 secondsLike, checking off boxes. 36 minutes and 58 secondsAnd now it's like, uh... 36 minutes and 59 secondssort of, like, trying to conceptualize stuff 37 minutes and 2 secondsand come up with, like-- 37 minutes and 4 secondsYeah, I mean, that's just, like, a completely different process. 37 minutes and 6 secondsI like it. 37 minutes and 8 secondsBut... 37 minutes and 10 secondsit's, like... 37 minutes and 11 secondstaking care of mental health and yourself, it's like: 37 minutes and 14 seconds"How does one do that?" 37 minutes and 16 secondsAnd I don't think anyone is great at figuring that out yet. 37 minutes and 20 secondsFeeling better. 37 minutes and 21 secondsBut starting new projects, 37 minutes and 22 secondsthere is new situations, 37 minutes and 24 secondsand new struggles, and new problems those projects have. 37 minutes and 27 secondsWhich... of course, you know, 37 minutes and 29 secondsit's never-- it's never smooth sailing forever. 37 minutes and 32 secondsPAUL: Emotionally, for you, having had distance, 37 minutes and 35 secondsspending time on a new project, 37 minutes and 37 secondsthe documentary came out over a year after the game launched, 37 minutes and 40 secondsto be put back into that headspace... 37 minutes and 45 secondsOh, man... 37 minutes and 50 seconds\[SIGHS\] 37 minutes and 51 secondsYeah. 37 minutes and 53 secondsTAZIO: Because usually you just do these things 37 minutes and 54 secondsthen you kind of move on to the next thing and you forget. 37 minutes and 56 secondsBut then, in our case, 37 minutes and 57 secondslike, a documentary-- a long-ass documentary comes out. 38 minutes and 0 secondsAnd, like, you know, very thoroughly... 38 minutes and 3 secondssort of, like, guides you through memory lane 38 minutes and 6 secondsand that whole process. 38 minutes and 7 secondsOf everything that ever happened. 38 minutes and 10 secondsPAUL: We kick off the documentary with the ten-year anniversary. 38 minutes and 14 secondsKEE: Yeah. 38 minutes and 15 secondsOh my gosh! That was the beginning of the documentary? 38 minutes and 18 secondsHow long had Psychonauts 1 been out for? 38 minutes and 23 secondsHoo! 38 minutes and 25 secondsTIM: Uh, James. We are gonna talk about things. 38 minutes and 26 secondsOne of the things we are gonna talk about-- 38 minutes and 28 secondswe are gonna talk about... 38 minutes and 29 seconds...the slow roll-out of the Double Fine Adventure documentary 38 minutes and 33 secondson making of Psychonauts 2. 38 minutes and 36 secondsPAUL: How did it feel to sort of be transported back to that experience? 38 minutes and 40 seconds\[CHUCKLES\] 38 minutes and 41 secondsWell, there was-- there was a few episodes 38 minutes and 43 secondsthat I didn't need to relive that experience. 38 minutes and 46 secondsCLAM: Yeah, or not, you know. 38 minutes and 48 secondsLike, I... 38 minutes and 49 secondsI might have, like, blocked some of it out. 38 minutes and 52 secondsOh, gosh. 38 minutes and 53 secondsLEVI: Watching all of that was like-- 38 minutes and 55 secondsit was like just having things flow back to you 38 minutes and 59 secondsthat, like, you even forgot about. 39 minutes and 1 secondWhich was pretty wild. 39 minutes and 3 secondsOh! 39 minutes and 4 secondsOh! 39 minutes and 5 secondsRUSTY: But it was also fun to see... 39 minutes and 7 secondspeople who maybe weren't on the team anymore? 39 minutes and 11 secondsThat's what I like about all these documentaries, 39 minutes and 13 secondsis that, you know, you get to see your friends again. 39 minutes and 15 secondsEven the hummingbird video. 39 minutes and 18 secondsRAY: We have a little bit of that from the first game, right? 39 minutes and 21 secondsFrom Tim's little-- when he was being annoying and... 39 minutes and 24 secondshaving a camera in our faces. 39 minutes and 26 secondsIt's nice to... 39 minutes and 28 seconds...to, um... 39 minutes and 29 seconds...to remember. 39 minutes and 31 secondsI was torn. 39 minutes and 32 secondsIt must have been so interesting 39 minutes and 35 secondsto think about how to, like, weave this story in 39 minutes and 38 secondsand, like, cut this footage together. 39 minutes and 40 secondsAnd it's really amazing that you all did this, 39 minutes and 43 secondsbut I also wish that I could have been part of it, so. 39 minutes and 46 secondsYeah. 39 minutes and 48 secondsI mean, I... 39 minutes and 49 secondsI definitely went into it with a certain amount of dread, right? 39 minutes and 51 secondsBecause it was... 39 minutes and 54 secondsIt was a hard project. 39 minutes and 55 secondsThere-- there were difficult moments. 39 minutes and 58 secondsAnd I was afraid of how folks would be depicted or represented. 40 minutes and 3 secondsA lot of the... 40 minutes and 5 seconds...difficulties made me not have joy in making games anymore. 40 minutes and 10 secondsAt that point. I think it's back. 40 minutes and 12 secondsI don't know. 40 minutes and 13 secondsI don't know, it's all-- 40 minutes and 15 secondsOr it's all burned out and I don't feel anything anymore. 40 minutes and 17 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 40 minutes and 20 secondsSo, you know, knowing that, 40 minutes and 22 secondsand knowing that, you know, those... 40 minutes and 25 seconds...clips or that... 40 minutes and 27 seconds...is going to replay that footage, it's a-- 40 minutes and 29 secondsIt's a tough thing to go through. 40 minutes and 32 secondsIt was really hard for me to watch. 40 minutes and 34 secondsLike, as soon as I started watching it, I was, like, right back there. 40 minutes and 37 secondsSo, I mean, you did a great job, 40 minutes and 39 secondsbecause it really brought how it was. 40 minutes and 41 secondsAnd I remember I had a strong reaction, 40 minutes and 43 secondsbecause as soon as it came out, I was like: 40 minutes and 45 seconds"Oh, I'm gonna check these out." 40 minutes and 46 secondsAnd I, like... 40 minutes and 47 secondsI would watch a few and I'd be like: "Ah..." 40 minutes and 49 secondsAnd I would just, like-- I would just start to, like, shake. 40 minutes and 52 secondsSo I had to, like, stop. 40 minutes and 54 secondsWanting to yell through the screen and be like: 40 minutes and 57 seconds"No, it's okay! You don't have to worry about that! 40 minutes and 58 secondsBecause this is gonna happen. And don't do this, and don't do that!" 41 minutes and 0 secondsI think I got maybe-- maybe ten episodes in 41 minutes and 4 secondsand then I was like: "I gotta-- I can't. I can't, I'm not ready." 41 minutes and 7 secondsBut that felt like I was letting you guys down. 41 minutes and 11 secondsAnd I also felt like I was letting myself down. 41 minutes and 14 secondsI just said: "I'm better than this. I'm stronger than this." 41 minutes and 17 secondsIt was-- I mean, I kind of-- 41 minutes and 19 secondsI kind of couldn't stop watching it. 41 minutes and 21 secondsJAMES: Yeah, I expected it to be a lot harder to watch than it was. 41 minutes and 24 secondsI expected it to be, like, traumatic to go back and relive difficult moments. 41 minutes and 29 secondsUm... 41 minutes and 30 secondsBut it wasn't. I don't know, it was fine. 41 minutes and 32 secondsIt was very strange seeing stuff like Tim clearly not want to hire me... 41 minutes and 37 seconds...and Zak fight to hire me. 41 minutes and 40 secondsYou gotta-- you gotta take chances on people. 41 minutes and 43 secondsI'll fire him if he's bad. 41 minutes and 45 secondsYeah. 41 minutes and 46 secondsBut then say he'd be happy to fire me. 41 minutes and 49 secondsI think, honestly, for me watching it, 41 minutes and 50 secondsthat was probably the most interesting aspect. 41 minutes and 53 secondsJust all of what was going on. 41 minutes and 54 secondsAll the other characters. Characters... 41 minutes and 56 secondsPeople. 41 minutes and 57 secondsSeeing your part in a bigger picture, 41 minutes and 59 secondsthat was really amazing. 42 minutes and 1 secondAnd seeing all these, like, meetings that you didn't necessarily go to 42 minutes and 5 secondsand being like: "Oh, I see why Tim was like that. 42 minutes and 8 secondsBecause of this meeting that happened prior." 42 minutes and 12 secondsBecause you don't necessarily know, like: 42 minutes and 15 seconds"Oh, their mood has changed. 42 minutes and 17 secondsWhy has their mood changed? Oh, I don't know." 42 minutes and 19 secondsI think you should ask every single person that question. 42 minutes and 22 secondsAnd let me know what they say. 42 minutes and 24 secondsPAUL: Yeah, I would love to know... 42 minutes and 27 secondswhat you thought of some of the stuff in the doc that you weren't present for. 42 minutes and 33 secondsJAMES: The only painful part, I think, was seeing people... 42 minutes and 36 seconds...at the studio reflect about me in real-time... 42 minutes and 40 secondsin ways that I really wish they had done with me. 42 minutes and 42 secondsAnd I wish they had addressed with me directly. 42 minutes and 44 secondsYeah, that part was difficult, but... 42 minutes and 46 secondsmostly it was just really interesting. 42 minutes and 48 secondsSETH: I had never seen the video footage of Tim and Zak sitting there 42 minutes and 52 secondsand talking about a lot of these ideas for the first time. 42 minutes and 56 secondsAnd it was... 42 minutes and 57 secondsit was very interesting to me, 42 minutes and 59 secondsbecause I had basically, like, inherited some design documents 43 minutes and 3 secondsand some decisions that got made years and years ago. 43 minutes and 6 secondsAnd I was trying to just be like: "Well, what... 43 minutes and 9 secondsOkay, yeah, this is what we are doing." 43 minutes and 11 secondsAnd, you know, it just seemed like that's just what-- 43 minutes and 13 secondswhat needed to happen in Psychonauts 2. 43 minutes and 14 secondsBut, like, the origin of those ideas, 43 minutes and 16 secondsand the conversations around, like, how we got there was really revealing. 43 minutes and 20 secondsI was like: "I should have watched this shit a long time ago." 43 minutes and 22 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 43 minutes and 23 secondsWe all needed to see that! 43 minutes and 27 secondsI wasn't angry at you. 43 minutes and 29 secondsBut I was angry that we weren't seeing that, 43 minutes and 33 secondsbecause I think that would have helped us all as a studio... 43 minutes and 36 seconds...maybe even get behind Zak a little bit more. 43 minutes and 39 secondsThat, actually... It was strange watching that footage 43 minutes and 41 secondsand being like: "Wow, Zak is doing a great job here." 43 minutes and 44 secondsYou know, when we were brainstorming in the beginning, 43 minutes and 45 secondsit was, like, really happy times. 43 minutes and 46 secondsI was like: "Oh, that's right. We were, like, hitting it off. 43 minutes and 48 secondsWe were vibing creatively, laughing, coming up with tons of stuff." 43 minutes and 51 secondsAnd, um... 43 minutes and 54 secondsWhen you see things start to go bad, 43 minutes and 56 secondsyou can see how that-- 43 minutes and 57 secondsthat kind of pressure and fear of, like... 44 minutes and 0 seconds...public failure brings out not our best selves usually. 44 minutes and 3 secondsLike, none of us are on our best 44 minutes and 4 secondswhen we are, like, worried about publicly failing. 44 minutes and 7 secondsSo, um... 44 minutes and 8 secondsYou know... 44 minutes and 10 secondsThat's what I would say about that. 44 minutes and 11 secondsIs that-- that-- That's a hard thing to do for anybody. 44 minutes and 15 secondsAnd it was really, you know, it was kind of disappointing... 44 minutes and 18 seconds...to see... 44 minutes and 20 seconds...and know that that happened here, 44 minutes and 21 secondsyou know, that happened here at this company. 44 minutes and 23 secondsAnd-- and everyone-- 44 minutes and 24 secondsyou know, and it drove some people away. 44 minutes and 27 secondsSome really talented, wonderful people. 44 minutes and 30 secondsI want to go back all the way to Anna. 44 minutes and 33 secondsBecause, like, I would say that's the biggest regret I have on the project 44 minutes and 35 secondsis losing Anna Kipnis. 44 minutes and 37 secondsAnd if I had, um... 44 minutes and 38 secondsseen this footage in the documentary, I probably would have-- 44 minutes and 40 secondsnot to blame you guys for not showing me this, 44 minutes and 42 secondsbut, honestly, it wasn't until-- 44 minutes and 44 secondsI mean, Anna came to me to say she was having a hard time. 44 minutes and 47 secondsAnd when she explained it to me, I was like: 44 minutes and 48 seconds"So, you are having conflicts with someone 44 minutes and 50 secondsand they are overruling you, and... 44 minutes and 52 secondsBut they are the project leader, so." 44 minutes and 54 secondsI didn't really quite understand why it was so bad. 44 minutes and 56 secondsAnd then when she left, I was like: 44 minutes and 57 seconds"Wow, that must have been worse than I-- than I realized. 44 minutes and 59 secondsI didn't-- I didn't think she was that upset. 45 minutes and 1 secondANNA: I think a waterfall would do that. 45 minutes and 3 seconds-ZAK: Like a little: "Pshhh." -ANNA: Yeah. 45 minutes and 5 secondsTIM: "And we've been through so many problems over the years, 45 minutes and 7 secondssurely this could have been fixed." 45 minutes and 8 secondsZAK: Do I want to just do something interesting there 45 minutes and 10 secondsor do you want to do a waterfall? 45 minutes and 12 secondsTIM: Watching the documentary I was like: 45 minutes and 13 seconds"Oh, wow, those meetings were... 45 minutes and 15 secondsYou can just see it on her face." 45 minutes and 20 secondsThat was really hard to see. 45 minutes and 23 secondsI knew that was going on. 45 minutes and 24 secondsAnd again, regrets, regrets, regrets, right? 45 minutes and 28 secondsIt's one thing to hear that something tough happened. 45 minutes and 31 secondsIt's another thing to, like, see that tough thing happen 45 minutes and 34 secondsand then to see the reaction of the person going through it. 45 minutes and 37 secondsAnd there are some of those meetings where I'm like: 45 minutes and 40 seconds"Am I-- am I in that room? 45 minutes and 43 secondsIf I was in that room, why didn't I say something?" 45 minutes and 48 secondsTIM: Because those meetings were about people being shut down 45 minutes and 52 secondsand made to feel embarrassed for bringing up things. 45 minutes and 55 secondsNo one is going to pitch the idea that makes the game good 45 minutes and 57 secondswhen they are, kind of, mocked 45 minutes and 59 secondsor made to feel bad about bringing forth creative ideas. 46 minutes and 2 secondsASIF: All the stuff leading up to her eventually leaving. 46 minutes and 5 secondsThings in that episode, like-- 46 minutes and 6 secondsI remember just, like, watching her-- 46 minutes and 9 secondsbecause, you know, we are always, like, keeping one eye on the viewfinder 46 minutes and 12 secondsand then one eye sort of, like, partially focused 46 minutes and 15 secondsjust ambiently in the whole room, 46 minutes and 16 secondsbecause you are, like, waiting to see what small movements people are making. 46 minutes and 19 secondsAnd I feel like my eyes were always just kind of like: "Oh my god." 46 minutes and 24 secondsThere were so many times where I just remember, like... 46 minutes and 27 secondsmoving in for a certain shot, and then those ended up being used 46 minutes and 31 secondsin the, like, some of those moments that are really, really hard to watch now. 46 minutes and 35 secondsPushing in on people's worst moments. 46 minutes and 38 secondsI'm glad that, like... 46 minutes and 40 secondsthis is kind of years behind me now, 46 minutes and 42 secondsbecause I don't think that I would want to shoot it the same way now. 46 minutes and 45 secondsOr, like, that I would feel comfortable doing it. 46 minutes and 47 secondsUm... 46 minutes and 49 secondsTIM: You know, I was watching the documentary 46 minutes and 50 secondsand I was, you know, at the wrap party, 46 minutes and 51 secondsand all these feelings come out of, like: "Oh, wow, we got through it!" 46 minutes and 55 secondsYou know, especially with the old-timers. 46 minutes and 56 secondsLike, with Kee, and Geoff, and Dave Russell, and Ray, and... 47 minutes and 0 seconds"We've been through so much together. 47 minutes and 1 secondAnd, like, we went through another thing together. 47 minutes and 3 secondsAnd we all stuck together. And isn't that great? 47 minutes and 5 secondsIsn't that great that we all went through this?" 47 minutes and 6 secondsAnd in my head I kind of felt like: "It's great to see Kee, and... 47 minutes and 9 secondsAnd isn't that great Anna..." 47 minutes and 11 secondsAnd then, like, she wasn't there. 47 minutes and 12 secondsAnd that was, like, the first time-- Like, I knew obviously she wasn't there. 47 minutes and 15 secondsBut that's the first time I really felt it, like: 47 minutes and 17 seconds"Oh, wow, she-- 47 minutes and 18 secondsyou know, she should be here at the end." 47 minutes and 20 secondsUm... and she wasn't. 47 minutes and 21 secondsAnd that's-- that's-- That was really upsetting to me. 47 minutes and 24 secondsI think I get it a little bit more. 47 minutes and 25 secondsBecause Anna has always talked about... 47 minutes and 27 secondswhen, you know, ex-Double Finers go to a company like Google or Facebook, 47 minutes and 31 secondsthey often talk about trying to recreate 47 minutes and 33 secondsthe special creative magic they had at Double Fine. 47 minutes and 37 secondsThis vibe where people feel safe playing creatively, 47 minutes and 40 secondsand trying out things, and taking risks, 47 minutes and 42 secondsand supporting each other, and creating really-- 47 minutes and 44 secondsthese amazing things come out of that when that's working well. 47 minutes and 47 secondsAnd watching the meetings I realized, 47 minutes and 49 secondsI was watching her watch that-- that light kind of get snuffed out. 47 minutes and 54 secondsNo, no, I don't want to go back to the drawing board. 47 minutes and 55 secondsI feel like we are really close on this. 47 minutes and 56 secondsLike, it just feels like we are, like, two inches away from something. 48 minutes and 4 secondsTIM: Okay, see ya. 48 minutes and 7 secondsI think that went pretty good. 48 minutes and 11 secondsTIM: That's what I figured out 48 minutes and 12 secondsjust a little too late on that project. 48 minutes and 16 secondsYou know how much I miss Zak. 48 minutes and 18 secondsJust everyday. 48 minutes and 20 secondsLike, I miss that management style so much. 48 minutes and 22 secondsYeah, talking about Zak. Sit down. 48 minutes and 24 secondsOh, shit! 48 minutes and 26 secondsOn the other hand, I did watch the documentary 48 minutes and 28 secondsand sympathize a lot more with Zak. 48 minutes and 30 secondsBecause I was like: "Man, he really was trying." 48 minutes and 32 secondsHe was clearly stressed out by what was going on at the studio and... 48 minutes and 37 seconds...earnestly didn't know how to fix it. 48 minutes and 39 secondsI think that was the most surprising thing to me, 48 minutes and 41 secondswas seeing him be like: "I just don't know what's going on." 48 minutes and 44 secondsSo, I feel bad that it went down the way it did. 48 minutes and 50 secondsNo one is a bad guy, really. 48 minutes and 52 secondsBecause everyone has their own shit. 48 minutes and 53 secondsAnd that's maybe... 48 minutes and 55 seconds...maybe Zak too, you know? 48 minutes and 58 secondsJP: I think also just culturally... 49 minutes and 0 seconds...design was in a weird spot with Double Fine, you know? 49 minutes and 2 secondsI think some people on the team, 49 minutes and 4 secondsmany of whom did not, you know, stay till the end of the project, 49 minutes and 9 secondsthey did transfer their animus for Zak 49 minutes and 15 secondsonto other designers, yeah. 49 minutes and 17 secondsAnd that sucks. 49 minutes and 18 secondsThere were definitely times when, like, you know... 49 minutes and 21 secondsbeing a designer and trying to do my job was... 49 minutes and 24 secondslike, blew up in my face. 49 minutes and 26 secondsYou know, now, as a designer here, I don't know. 49 minutes and 29 secondsAnd I wish I understood, you know, 49 minutes and 32 secondsthe conflict between design and the other departments, 49 minutes and 35 secondsbecause I still feel that there is some tension there. 49 minutes and 38 secondsPAUL: So, you came on the project, 49 minutes and 41 secondsduring Psychonauts 2, near the end-ish... 49 minutes and 45 secondsSARAH: Mm-hmm, I wasn't really aware of what I was walking into. 49 minutes and 49 secondsI hadn't heard anything about, you know, troubled development. 49 minutes and 54 secondsYou know, I knew that the project was taking longer, 49 minutes and 56 secondsbecause I had backed it and so I knew when it was supposed to come out. 50 minutes and 0 secondsYou know, being on other projects after that, 50 minutes and 2 secondsthere is so much reference, even now, to Psychonauts, 50 minutes and 5 secondsto things that happened on Psychonauts 2. 50 minutes and 8 secondsYou know, Mental Connection gets brought up so often. 50 minutes and 11 seconds"Oh, we don't want it to happen like how Mental Connection happened. 50 minutes and 14 secondsWe don't want it to go down that route." 50 minutes and 16 secondsAnd that means nothing to me. 50 minutes and 17 secondsAnd so it's... 50 minutes and 19 secondsI wish I understood that. 50 minutes and 22 secondsBecause, like, one of the feedback I would get would be, like, 50 minutes and 25 secondsdesigners liked working with me, 50 minutes and 27 secondsbecause, like, I would talk them through-- 50 minutes and 28 secondsApparently I'm really good at explaining blueprints 50 minutes and 30 secondsis what I've gotten as feedback. 50 minutes and 32 secondsAnd I was like: "That's kind of a weird feedback. 50 minutes and 35 secondsDo other people not work well with the designers?" 50 minutes and 38 secondsAnd I guess there had been, like, some conflict there 50 minutes and 41 secondsor just kind of, like-- some weird divide that had been formed. 50 minutes and 44 secondsYou know, there were some schisms that were created. 50 minutes and 47 secondsUnderstanding the origins 50 minutes and 49 secondsand how we got here, I think, is important, 50 minutes and 52 secondsbecause, you know, otherwise you come up with solutions that... 50 minutes and 57 secondsmay, you know, reopen old wounds or things like that. 51 minutes and 1 secondBecause like I said we are still living with some of that stuff now. 51 minutes and 4 secondsEMILY: I feel like we... 51 minutes and 6 seconds...hold on to... 51 minutes and 8 seconds...a lot of the Psychonauts 2 trauma. 51 minutes and 11 secondsAs-- right now, even. 51 minutes and 15 secondsOh, in Psychonauts 2 we did this-- 51 minutes and 17 secondsthis was bad, 51 minutes and 18 secondsso we need to do it this, like, completely opposite way. 51 minutes and 21 secondsAnd I think sometimes we overcorrect in some ways. 51 minutes and 25 secondsPAUL: And then, so, like, when the documentary came out... 51 minutes and 27 seconds-...you were seeing all this stuff... -Yeah. 51 minutes and 30 seconds...like, for the first time. 51 minutes and 32 secondsAnd I was just like: "Oh, this makes sense now. 51 minutes and 35 secondsThis environment just kind of formed that." 51 minutes and 37 secondsBut I think, like, now everyone kind of-- 51 minutes and 39 secondsLike, I don't think there is any problems now. 51 minutes and 40 secondsEveryone works pretty well together. 51 minutes and 42 secondsBut it was just like: 51 minutes and 43 seconds"Huh, okay, I get it now. 51 minutes and 44 secondsNow I get why I was getting that feedback." 51 minutes and 46 secondsBut I do think that it's getting better. 51 minutes and 48 secondsI do think that when someone has a problem now... 51 minutes and 53 seconds...we talk about it. 51 minutes and 54 secondsI think it was partly just that-- 51 minutes and 56 secondsyeah, like, there was still bad blood left over. 51 minutes and 57 secondsAnd when the person at the center of that is suddenly gone, 52 minutes and 2 secondsit doesn't just go away, you know? 52 minutes and 4 secondsBecause, it was-- You know, Zak was the Project Lead. 52 minutes and 6 secondsHe was-- at least that's the title, you know? 52 minutes and 9 secondsAnd I think that... he couldn't fill that role. 52 minutes and 11 secondsI think that people wouldn't really let him fill that role as well. 52 minutes and 15 secondsIt was an experiment. 52 minutes and 16 secondsUnfortunately there were casualties... 52 minutes and 19 seconds...from it. 52 minutes and 21 secondsKEE: Double Fine is a place that... 52 minutes and 23 seconds...embraces change. 52 minutes and 24 secondsThat, like-- 52 minutes and 25 secondsIf you look at how we survived, 52 minutes and 27 secondsit's because we changed from, like, you know, 52 minutes and 30 secondsbig game to small game, 52 minutes and 31 secondssmall game to trying this, 52 minutes and 33 secondsand then doing this, 52 minutes and 34 secondsand then crowdfunding, and all that kind of stuff. 52 minutes and 36 secondsLike, we had to adapt in order to survive. 52 minutes and 39 secondsSo, part of Psychonauts 2 was trying to... 52 minutes and 43 seconds...embrace the change of a new process, 52 minutes and 45 secondsof working a particular way. 52 minutes and 46 secondsThinking like: "Well, maybe this is gonna work better. 52 minutes and 48 secondsOr maybe this is additive to the way that we work or whatnot." 52 minutes and 51 secondsPersonally, what I don't think we thought 52 minutes and 53 secondsenough about was in that process what did we lose? 52 minutes and 56 secondsBut, yeah, I felt like I-- 52 minutes and 58 secondsI really felt like I lost Double Fine for a long time. 53 minutes and 1 secondAnd, um... 53 minutes and 2 secondsAnd it was hard! 53 minutes and 4 secondsI'm sorry that I, like, basically disappeared. 53 minutes and 8 secondsI just couldn't handle it. 53 minutes and 9 secondsYeah, well, that's-- I mean, yeah. 53 minutes and 11 secondsIt is what it is. 53 minutes and 13 secondsHopefully there is now 53 minutes and 15 secondsjust this shared experience that we all have. 53 minutes and 18 secondsSo that if there is any one person who gets in the way, 53 minutes and 24 secondswe can collectively say: 53 minutes and 27 seconds"That's not helpful here. 53 minutes and 29 secondsThat doesn't fit in here at Double Fine." 53 minutes and 32 secondsWatching how all that stuff played out 53 minutes and 35 secondsdefinitely taught me about leadership. 53 minutes and 39 secondsWhat to do and not to do. 53 minutes and 41 secondsAnd how it feels to be, you know, treated a certain way by a lead. 53 minutes and 45 secondsAnd just knowing how to talk with people, 53 minutes and 48 secondsand treat people, 53 minutes and 50 secondsand try to be empathetic to people's situations. 53 minutes and 56 secondsSo... 53 minutes and 58 secondsYeah. 54 minutes and 2 secondsDouble Fine is what it is. 54 minutes and 3 secondsAnd I don't think it's worth trying to change it... 54 minutes and 7 secondsif you are gonna lose people like Anna and Amy. 54 minutes and 11 secondsTIM: Okay! Um, hello! Happy Monday! 54 minutes and 14 secondsIt's great to see all of you. 54 minutes and 15 secondsHave we talked to James? 54 minutes and 16 secondsJames Spafford about, um... 54 minutes and 18 secondssaying things to the outside world, 54 minutes and 20 secondsand putting games into it. 54 minutes and 21 secondsHi. 54 minutes and 22 secondsPutting games into it... 54 minutes and 23 secondsPutting documentaries into it. 54 minutes and 25 secondsWhich is what we are going to do this week on Friday. 54 minutes and 28 secondsOh my god! Big day, 2 Player! 54 minutes and 31 seconds-It's finally happening. -Congratulations! 54 minutes and 33 secondsWe are gonna surprise drop the entire 22-hour documentary 54 minutes and 37 secondson Friday morning for backers, 54 minutes and 39 secondsand Friday afternoon for everybody else. 54 minutes and 43 secondsAnd, uh... everyone can have at it. 54 minutes and 46 secondsBut, yeah, exciting! Woop-woop! 54 minutes and 49 secondsDREW: We are doing it? 54 minutes and 51 secondsPAUL: Unlisted. 54 minutes and 52 secondsPublic. 54 minutes and 55 secondsAll right, that's it! 54 minutes and 56 secondsThirty-two. 54 minutes and 58 secondsDREW: Ta-da! 55 minutes and 0 secondsSPAFF: All right, I'm going live with the blog stuff. 55 minutes and 2 secondsCongratulations, folks! 55 minutes and 3 seconds-HARPER: I'll hit all the social stuff. -DREW: Cheers! 55 minutes and 6 seconds\[PAUL EXHALES\] 55 minutes and 8 secondsSPAFF: Someone cool is here! 55 minutes and 10 seconds-Oh, man! -We got Siddiky in here! 55 minutes and 12 secondsHow is it going, you guys? 55 minutes and 13 secondsCongratulations to everybody! 55 minutes and 16 secondsThanks! 55 minutes and 18 secondsWe are all, like, exhausted and, like, freaking out at the same time. 55 minutes and 22 secondsI can imagine. 55 minutes and 24 secondsCAMDEN: I remember when that went out... 55 minutes and 25 secondsit was kind of the same deal of when the game first went out. 55 minutes and 30 secondsBecause in both occasions 55 minutes and 33 secondswe didn't really know what we had on our hands. 55 minutes and 35 secondsIt was really hard to see. 55 minutes and 39 secondsBecause we were just so in it. 55 minutes and 41 secondsUh, I don't know-- 55 minutes and 42 secondsI don't know if people are going to go along on this ride or not. 55 minutes and 45 secondsPAUL: Some people were really scared about putting the documentary out. 55 minutes and 48 secondsThey thought that it would, like, damage the company, 55 minutes and 50 secondsmake it hard for us to hire people. 55 minutes and 52 secondsTIM: This is the big weekend we released the documentary. 55 minutes and 54 secondsResponse has been okay, good. 55 minutes and 56 secondsNo, um, horrible-- 55 minutes and 58 secondsI haven't been fired yet. 55 minutes and 59 secondsAnd there has been no other backlash. 56 minutes and 1 secondYeah, but we got a lot of people applying for jobs here saying 56 minutes and 5 secondsbecause of the documentary they wanted to apply for a job here. 56 minutes and 8 secondsWhich was funny. 56 minutes and 9 secondsWay more applicants than normal! 56 minutes and 11 secondsYeah, it's kind of mind-boggling. 56 minutes and 14 secondsAnd even though, like, things got gnarly, 56 minutes and 16 secondspeople are like: "Yep, I want to work there." 56 minutes and 19 secondsBut I think a lot of people watched it and said: 56 minutes and 23 seconds"Those are some really talented who were willing to work together 56 minutes and 26 secondsand get through something-- through some difficult times 56 minutes and 29 secondsto end up making something really great. 56 minutes and 32 secondsAnd those are people that I would love to work alongside." 56 minutes and 35 secondsBut, um... 56 minutes and 38 secondsI'm glad that it's done and it's out. 56 minutes and 40 secondsAnd I am-- 56 minutes and 41 secondsStrangely, I didn't think so, but I am watching it all again 56 minutes and 44 secondsand I'm already on Episode 18. 56 minutes and 46 seconds\[CHUCKLES\] 56 minutes and 48 secondsI always think the Anna episode is going to end differently. 56 minutes and 50 secondsMatt Booty going head-to-head with Gigi is probably the tensest moment in there. 56 minutes and 54 secondsBut I think that still everyone comes off looking good. 56 minutes and 56 secondsOkay! 56 minutes and 58 secondsTim, you motherfucker! 57 minutes and 0 secondsThe context that I would like to put in there 57 minutes and 2 secondsis that you were texting me during that meeting 57 minutes and 5 secondsto tell me to ask that question! 57 minutes and 9 secondsTIM: Every scene you see in the documentary, 57 minutes and 11 secondsI'm texting the people to say what they say. 57 minutes and 12 secondsThe entire documentary is my little puppet show. 57 minutes and 14 secondsYou know that, right? 57 minutes and 16 secondsNo, I don't remember actually texting you to-- 57 minutes and 19 secondsOh my god! 57 minutes and 21 secondsYou had questions already and I wanted you to ask them. 57 minutes and 23 seconds-I seem to remember. -Uh-huh. 57 minutes and 26 secondsThere were some interviewers that were giving you a hard time 57 minutes and 28 secondsabout how you treated Andy on his way out. 57 minutes and 30 secondsWho? 57 minutes and 31 secondsOh, that fucker got off easy. 57 minutes and 32 secondsOh my god! 57 minutes and 33 secondsTotally unrelated maybe, but, like... 57 minutes and 35 seconds1775 to 1780 was exactly five years 57 minutes and 38 secondsthat Benedict Arnold served with George Washington 57 minutes and 40 secondsbefore he, um... betrayed the country, 57 minutes and 42 secondsand was viewed as a traitor for the rest of his life. 57 minutes and 45 seconds-\[RAY LAUGHS\] -TIM: So, completely unrelated. 57 minutes and 46 secondsThat's just something that people should know about... 57 minutes and 48 secondsI did think it was funny when he was on MinnMax 57 minutes and 51 secondsand he just doubled-down. 57 minutes and 52 secondsLook, the Benedict Arnold stuff I feel like was rough. 57 minutes and 55 secondsExactly! I tricked you! 57 minutes and 56 secondsI was hoping you would say it, because no, 57 minutes and 58 secondsI a hundred-percent stand by that joke. 57 minutes and 59 secondsOkay, okay, all right. 58 minutes and 1 second\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 58 minutes and 3 secondsI mean, I-- 58 minutes and 5 secondsI was upset with Andy. 58 minutes and 7 secondsI still-- I still feel my standard is that if you are a lead on a project, 58 minutes and 10 secondsyou shouldn't leave in the last six to three months, you know, like-- 58 minutes and 13 secondsin the last year of a project. 58 minutes and 14 secondsIf you are a lead producer on the project. 58 minutes and 16 secondsBut! I told him that. 58 minutes and 18 secondsAnd we stayed friendly over the whole thing, so. 58 minutes and 21 secondsI made that joke and, um... 58 minutes and 25 secondsUh, I stand by it. 58 minutes and 26 secondsIt was a pretty solid joke. 58 minutes and 28 secondsKEE: But I've also had people reaching out 58 minutes and 30 secondsto see how I'm doing. 58 minutes and 31 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 58 minutes and 33 seconds"Are you-- are you okay?" 58 minutes and 34 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 58 minutes and 36 secondsJOSH: You also-- thank you, 58 minutes and 37 secondsyou guys are wizards, you make me look so good! 58 minutes and 41 secondsSo smart and intelligent. 58 minutes and 42 secondsWho is the weirdest about being on camera? 58 minutes and 45 secondsIs it me? 58 minutes and 46 secondsJAMES: Everyone felt comfortable being mic'd and on camera. 58 minutes and 49 secondsAnd people really did forget that cameras were there. 58 minutes and 52 secondsAnd you can't do that unless you are embedded here 58 minutes and 54 secondsfor the entire time, 58 minutes and 55 secondsfor years and years and years and years. 58 minutes and 57 secondsAnd it's just nuts to look at! 58 minutes and 58 secondsI watched the documentary and I really take it for granted that... 59 minutes and 2 secondsit feels like when you watch it like there aren't cameras there. 59 minutes and 5 secondsAnd that's-- that's nuts. 59 minutes and 7 secondsJust by a nature of, like... attrition. 59 minutes and 9 seconds\[NAOKO LAUGHS\] 59 minutes and 11 secondsWhat the fuck was I even saying? 59 minutes and 13 secondsJAMES: Eventually everyone gets to a point where they are like: 59 minutes and 15 seconds"Well, I just-- I need to do my job. 59 minutes and 16 secondsAnd I can't keep thinking about how I'm being portrayed 59 minutes and 19 secondsin a documentary that's one day gonna come out. 59 minutes and 21 secondsAnd so you just get, like, a lot of honesty. 59 minutes and 23 secondsAnd, you know, people recognize that and it's awesome. 59 minutes and 26 secondsLEVI: I can't even explain... 59 minutes and 28 seconds...what a day is like here 59 minutes and 29 secondsto, like, my friends or, you know, my mom. 59 minutes and 33 secondsLike, it's hard! 59 minutes and 34 secondsNow I can just, like, point my family at a video 59 minutes and 37 secondsand I don't have to, like, update them on how my life is going. 59 minutes and 40 secondsPAUL: A twenty-hour video. 59 minutes and 41 secondsYeah. Yeah, right? 59 minutes and 43 secondsI saw one commenter... 59 minutes and 45 seconds...talk about how they were amazed at how many people left during P2. 59 minutes and 49 secondsAnd I was like: "Oh, that's-- that's not much. 59 minutes and 52 secondsI've seen much more people leave than that. 59 minutes and 54 secondsOn, like, perfectly fine, you know, normal-- 59 minutes and 58 secondsI was actually astonished how many people didn't. 1 hour and 1 secondI was like-- that's-- that's actually... 1 hour and 4 secondsThat made me feel good. 1 hour and 5 secondsThat made me feel really good. 1 hour and 7 secondsThe fact that were so few people who did leave, 1 hour and 10 secondsI think shows that there were a great number of people 1 hour and 13 secondsthat just wanted very much to... 1 hour and 16 seconds...be here to help right the ship. 1 hour and 19 secondsAARON: But it was really interesting seeing people's... 1 hour and 22 secondssort of hot takes on various events that occurred. 1 hour and 25 seconds"Oh, this thing was unfair. 1 hour and 26 secondsOr, like, this shouldn't have happened to this person. 1 hour and 28 secondsOr this person didn't seem, like, this bad." 1 hour and 30 secondsAnd looking at them and being like: 1 hour and 32 seconds"I don't agree with that in the least." 1 hour and 34 secondsI do run into people that will-- 1 hour and 37 secondswill, like, argue for a version of events and I'll be like: 1 hour and 40 seconds"Yeah, that's not-- that's not-- 1 hour and 41 secondsYou are missing some context." 1 hour and 43 secondsAnd, like, now that there is this footage out there, 1 hour and 45 secondsthis also becomes our, internally, 1 hour and 47 secondsour story of how-- how this process went, you know? 1 hour and 51 secondsThat becomes our own memory of how it is. 1 hour and 54 secondsSo it's weird to have... 1 hour and 56 secondslike, a canon-- 1 hour and 57 secondslike, a canon version of events, you know? 1 hour and 59 secondsAnd... that's a terrifying thing to do, you know? 1 hour and 1 minute and 3 secondsAnd this documentary, you know, 1 hour and 1 minute and 5 secondsand the prior documentaries and stuff, 1 hour and 1 minute and 6 secondsare sort of stories that the studio is telling about itself. 1 hour and 1 minute and 10 secondsBut, you know, the studio wants to tell these stories, 1 hour and 1 minute and 13 secondsbecause, you know, they think that they have value to-- 1 hour and 1 minute and 18 secondsto other people, 1 hour and 1 minute and 19 secondsand even some value to us who are still working here. 1 hour and 1 minute and 23 secondsI kind of made a conscious choice to... 1 hour and 1 minute and 27 seconds...sit out this phase of the studio's narrative, you know? 1 hour and 1 minute and 32 secondsUm... 1 hour and 1 minute and 33 secondsYou know, I sort of chose the level of distance 1 hour and 1 minute and 35 secondsthat felt appropriate, you know? 1 hour and 1 minute and 38 secondsI don't know, there is also-- there is another different element of it 1 hour and 1 minute and 41 secondsthat I felt was really surreal which is just sort of... 1 hour and 1 minute and 44 seconds...yeah, my own relationship 1 hour and 1 minute and 45 secondsto your Broken Age documentary and, like, how-- 1 hour and 1 minute and 48 secondsBecause that was also, like, way before I started at the company 1 hour and 1 minute and 51 secondsand I was, like-- 1 hour and 1 minute and 53 secondsI was studying. 1 hour and 1 minute and 54 secondsAnd, like, I sort of-- 1 hour and 1 minute and 56 secondsYou develop, by watching those things, like, 1 hour and 1 minute and 57 secondsa parasocial relationship with people. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 0 secondsAnd then coming into the office, and then meeting them, 1 hour and 2 minutes and 2 secondsmeeting Anna and Levi, 1 hour and 2 minutes and 4 secondsand, like, Emily and all these people 1 hour and 2 minutes and 6 secondsthat you have sort of, like, pre-conceived notions of who they are. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 9 secondsAnd then you get to know them, and they are exactly the person 1 hour and 2 minutes and 11 secondsthat you thought they were. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 12 secondsThat was, like-- That was really strange. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 14 secondsAnd then-- Like, having gone through that process 1 hour and 2 minutes and 16 secondsand now I'm sort of in a similar thing is very... 1 hour and 2 minutes and 19 secondsIt's weird. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 21 secondsOne of my friends was telling me about-- 1 hour and 2 minutes and 24 secondshe went to a game development conference 1 hour and 2 minutes and 27 secondsand, like, some indie developer was like: "Oh, you know Tazio?!" 1 hour and 2 minutes and 31 secondsI was like: "Jesus..." 1 hour and 2 minutes and 33 secondsOh, yeah. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 34 secondsPAUL: You are suddenly kind of a known figure in the industry. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 38 secondsPeople recognized me a couple times at GDC. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 41 secondsCameo! 1 hour and 2 minutes and 43 secondsJAMES: And people come up to me... 1 hour and 2 minutes and 45 secondsonly at game industry events obviously, 1 hour and 2 minutes and 47 secondsbut, like, I was at D.I.C.E. 1 hour and 2 minutes and 49 secondsand, like, there were people that I am a fan of that were like: 1 hour and 2 minutes and 52 seconds"Oh! You are James from the documentary." 1 hour and 2 minutes and 54 secondsThat's fucking wild! 1 hour and 2 minutes and 56 secondsHow much did you talk about me? 1 hour and 2 minutes and 58 secondsLike I said, I am embarrassed by how I come across in the documentary. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 3 secondsAnd I don't think that's reflected in how people talk to me about it, 1 hour and 3 minutes and 7 secondswhich I guess is good. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 9 secondsBut, like, it is... 1 hour and 3 minutes and 11 seconds...like, multiple episodes of me failing at my job. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 14 secondsThere was a while after it came out where I was like: 1 hour and 3 minutes and 17 seconds"It's not helpful for my career if I ever want to leave." 1 hour and 3 minutes and 20 secondsI don't know if that's true either. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 21 secondsThere is me being in the hospital, right? 1 hour and 3 minutes and 23 secondsLike, that was like-- 1 hour and 3 minutes and 24 secondsI thought I was dying in the middle of that documentary. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 27 secondsAnd... now tens of thousands of people have seen that moment for me. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 32 secondsThe documentary did affect how I saw myself. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 35 secondsBecause... I look at myself in the documentary 1 hour and 3 minutes and 37 secondsand I just look so... 1 hour and 3 minutes and 38 seconds...unwell. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 39 secondsIt made me really sad to see myself like that. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 42 secondsAnd so I went really hardcore into dieting and exercising. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 47 secondsEvery moment of my life is different. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 49 secondsPeople smile at me in public now. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 52 secondsAnd, like, didn't before. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 53 secondsMy diabetes is in remission now. 1 hour and 3 minutes and 55 secondsAnd so, to be out of that zone, 1 hour and 3 minutes and 57 secondsand to be... 1 hour and 3 minutes and 58 seconds...like, a normal functioning member of society is, like, great. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 2 secondsAnd it changes everything. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 5 secondsBut mostly it's just really great to see... 1 hour and 4 minutes and 9 secondsI mean, especially because we are out of the office, 1 hour and 4 minutes and 10 secondsit's just really nice to see everybody... 1 hour and 4 minutes and 12 seconds...collaborating in the office while I watch it. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 15 secondsAnd I'm like: "Man, I want-- I want that again." 1 hour and 4 minutes and 18 secondsI loved walking through the hallway and seeing 50 people 1 hour and 4 minutes and 20 secondsthat I, like, know are brilliant and creative. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 22 secondsAnd, like, how could you not want that? 1 hour and 4 minutes and 25 secondsI watched the documentary three times. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 27 secondsAnd then, strangely, the third time I watched it 1 hour and 4 minutes and 29 secondsI was mostly just watching all the fun parts that we had. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 31 secondsLike, there was a lot of just the team having-- 1 hour and 4 minutes and 34 secondsFor all the things that were going wrong, 1 hour and 4 minutes and 35 secondsyou can see in the background of the shots, 1 hour and 4 minutes and 36 secondsusually, like, montages, 1 hour and 4 minutes and 38 secondsa ton of people just doing amazing work. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 40 secondsLike all the characters getting modeled... 1 hour and 4 minutes and 41 secondswhich were almost never a problem. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 43 secondsJust, like, all these things kind of flowing along. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 46 secondsAnd also the people who were getting along on the project 1 hour and 4 minutes and 48 secondsjust having a good time together and, um... 1 hour and 4 minutes and 50 secondsAnd the sad thing is a lot of the best times 1 hour and 4 minutes and 52 secondson the project happened after COVID started. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 55 secondsAnd we were at home. 1 hour and 4 minutes and 56 secondsThat's when creatively, like, a lot of the stuff started coming together 1 hour and 4 minutes and 58 secondsand the quality of the game really started coming together. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 0 secondsBut it was all over Zoom and it was very, like, hard to capture 1 hour and 5 minutes and 3 secondsthe vibe of, like, everyone in the office, so. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 7 secondsSo, the third time through I was mostly just watching it 1 hour and 5 minutes and 9 secondswith all this nostalgia for the team. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 10 secondsIt's what really got me committed to finishing the remodel in the office 1 hour and 5 minutes and 14 secondsand getting people to come back and, like, do yoga and have board game nights. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 17 secondsBecause it was like: "Oh, I miss being together. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 18 secondsLook at all the shots of people being together." 1 hour and 5 minutes and 21 secondsThat was mostly what I focused on. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 22 secondsLike, it rallied me around trying to bring the company back 1 hour and 5 minutes and 25 secondsinto the physical space of Double Fine, 1 hour and 5 minutes and 27 secondsbecause it was a very special place to be. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 30 seconds\[BERT PLAYS THE PIANO\] 1 hour and 5 minutes and 38 secondsRAY: You want to enjoy each other's company. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 40 secondsYou know, you want to be here for the work, 1 hour and 5 minutes and 42 secondsbut you also want to be here just for the people. 1 hour and 5 minutes and 46 secondsAnd, you know, when I was watching the episode where I moved, 1 hour and 5 minutes and 51 secondsand I was sitting in my office just, like, by myself, 1 hour and 5 minutes and 55 secondsit took me back to remembering, like, how I really missed everybody. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 0 secondsLike, I get emotional when I watch that episode. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 3 secondsWatching the episode where Ray leaves, right? 1 hour and 6 minutes and 5 secondsHey, Ray. How's it going? 1 hour and 6 minutes and 7 secondsAnd you are like: "Wow, it's such a big deal being made of Ray leaving." 1 hour and 6 minutes and 10 secondsAnd now we are-- Because it was a big deal, right? 1 hour and 6 minutes and 12 secondsAnd you think about it... 1 hour and 6 minutes and 13 secondsYou watch everybody crying and grieving... 1 hour and 6 minutes and 16 secondsThis one person left. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 17 secondsAnd then it happened, like, sixty more times 1 hour and 6 minutes and 19 secondsand we never even talked about it. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 20 secondsLike, all of us left. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 23 secondsEvery single person here, like, left each other's presence. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 27 secondsI mean, Ray wasn't leaving the company. He was just leaving our daily lives. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 30 secondsAnd it happened a bunch more times. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 32 secondsIt just happened so quietly and slowly 1 hour and 6 minutes and 33 secondsthat no one even noticed it. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 34 secondsBut I still think there is, like, this-- 1 hour and 6 minutes and 36 secondsI don't know, I still think there is grieving to do about that. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 39 secondsAnd I look forward to those of you who are coming back to the office 1 hour and 6 minutes and 41 secondsto seeing you again. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 43 secondsWatching that video really makes me appreciate that. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 45 seconds"Oh, yeah! That's what it's like to work... 1 hour and 6 minutes and 47 secondsin a studio, with people." 1 hour and 6 minutes and 49 secondsBecause at that point we had been working 1 hour and 6 minutes and 50 secondsfrom home for a couple of years. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 51 secondsAnd it was just, like-- I was just so used to it. 1 hour and 6 minutes and 54 secondsAnd definitely had this immediate feeling of like: 1 hour and 6 minutes and 56 seconds"I want to go back in to the office and see people again." 1 hour and 7 minutes and 1 secondI feel bad all the times in the documentary 1 hour and 7 minutes and 3 secondsthat I comment on the documentary. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 4 secondsBut you used all that! 1 hour and 7 minutes and 5 secondsI thought you'd be like... 1 hour and 7 minutes and 8 seconds"Oh, Tim ruined the shot. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 9 secondsWe can't use it, because he is talking about the documentary." 1 hour and 7 minutes and 11 secondsEven when I said: "This is the final shot of the documentary." 1 hour and 7 minutes and 13 secondsI'm like: "Oh my god, 1 hour and 7 minutes and 15 secondsyou actually made it like, the final shot of the documentary." 1 hour and 7 minutes and 17 secondsBut now I'm scared of what to say. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 18 secondsWhat if I'm like: "This is the episode where Tim dies?" 1 hour and 7 minutes and 21 seconds"Remember when he was pushing the desk and he had a heart attack?" 1 hour and 7 minutes and 26 secondsUh... I'd like to welcome you all back to the new Double Fine. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 28 secondsWe remodeled. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 30 secondsThis is our new space. This is, uh, Suite 208. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 33 secondsWe have a multi-purpose board game area and yoga space. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 36 secondsAnd we have an outdoor space which has a tiki bar... 1 hour and 7 minutes and 40 secondsand a fire pit. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 42 secondsIt's beautiful. It's a whole new day. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 43 secondsPAUL: How do you like these couches? 1 hour and 7 minutes and 45 secondsI mean, I wouldn't have it in my own house. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 47 secondsBut it's fine for here. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 50 secondsTIM: This is the first week 1 hour and 7 minutes and 51 secondspeople have come back to the office since quarantine really. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 54 secondsBut it's been this ghost town. 1 hour and 7 minutes and 56 secondsAnd then... 1 hour and 7 minutes and 58 secondsMicrosoft came to visit to check out our new games, 1 hour and 8 minutes and 0 secondsto see our new games for the first time. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 2 secondsAnd so we really wanted to, like, make the office look nice. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 5 secondsAnd so, since 2021 1 hour and 8 minutes and 7 secondsMonica has been planning this remodel with Denise. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 10 secondsAnd, like, supply chain, 1 hour and 8 minutes and 11 secondsall that stuff that's happened during COVID delayed it. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 14 secondsAnd they pulled it together this week. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 15 secondsLike, the day before Microsoft-- 1 hour and 8 minutes and 17 secondslike, the morning before Microsoft arrived. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 19 secondsIt was amazing, triumphant thing. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 22 secondsIt looks beautiful! 1 hour and 8 minutes and 23 secondsWe can put all of the trophies up. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 25 secondsWe have shelves everywhere for more trophies. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 29 secondsHere is-- here is three-year old coffee. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 33 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 8 minutes and 42 secondsTIM: It was great! It's hard to tell. Like, our new games are... 1 hour and 8 minutes and 45 secondsa test of this new thing of, like: 1 hour and 8 minutes and 47 seconds"What game could we never get accepted by a publisher?" 1 hour and 8 minutes and 51 secondsLee is like: "What could I never get approved by a publisher?" 1 hour and 8 minutes and 54 secondsSo he is making a game, I don't want to call it weird, 1 hour and 8 minutes and 56 secondsbut it's definitely, like, unexpected. 1 hour and 8 minutes and 58 secondsSo we had-- 1 hour and 9 minutes and 0 secondsWe had Matt Booty, we had Phil Spencer, 1 hour and 9 minutes and 2 secondsand their whole crew. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 6 secondsBut, um... 1 hour and 9 minutes and 7 secondsSo, I don't-- 1 hour and 9 minutes and 8 secondsI gotta follow-up next week and find out what they thought. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 10 secondsBut they seemed pleased. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 12 secondsBecause I have-- like, 1 hour and 9 minutes and 13 secondsthe way I feel like we fit into Microsoft is, like, 1 hour and 9 minutes and 16 secondswe can make the strangest games on Game Pass. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 18 secondsThe most surprising, most creative, 1 hour and 9 minutes and 20 secondsmost unique games. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 22 secondsHopefully. That's our goal. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 24 secondsSo hopefully they came away with like: "Well, they are doing that." 1 hour and 9 minutes and 38 secondsYeah, I'm gonna leap in... 1 hour and 9 minutes and 40 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 1 hour and 9 minutes and 41 secondsLike a trust fall situation. 1 hour and 9 minutes and 45 secondsJerry! 1 hour and 9 minutes and 49 secondsJerry! Jerry! 1 hour and 9 minutes and 58 seconds\[CHEERING\] 1 hour and 10 minutes and 6 secondsTIM: Don't ask too many questions. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 10 secondsDon't worry, I got this Paul. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 11 secondsI'm documenting this. You can chill out tonight. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 21 secondsThat was just a welcome back to the office... 1 hour and 10 minutes and 24 secondsYou know, we went out doing our historical bar crawl. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 26 secondsWe were having a good time. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 28 secondsIt was walking between two bars in Chinatown-- 1 hour and 10 minutes and 30 secondsall our project codenames for our games, as you know, are Chinatown bars. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 35 secondsOh, is this Broken Age?! 1 hour and 10 minutes and 36 secondsTIM: And walking between two of them, I... 1 hour and 10 minutes and 40 secondsI believe-- my story is that Alex Turner was supposed to catch me 1 hour and 10 minutes and 43 secondsas I jumped off a ledge, 1 hour and 10 minutes and 44 secondsand he wasn't there, and I fell and hit the ground. 1 hour and 10 minutes and 46 secondsAnd I didn't realize it, but I... 1 hour and 10 minutes and 48 secondsEveryone was like: "You hit your head!" 1 hour and 10 minutes and 49 secondsI was like: "I don't feel anything..." 1 hour and 10 minutes and 51 secondsBut they are like: "We heard a snap!" 1 hour and 10 minutes and 52 secondsAnd I was like: "I don't know what it was. Well, let's keep going!" 1 hour and 10 minutes and 54 secondsALEX: Tim... I want to make sure you are... 1 hour and 10 minutes and 57 secondsTIM: How bad was the fall? 1 hour and 10 minutes and 58 secondsALEX: Uh, Levi, Levi... 1 hour and 11 minutes and 0 secondsLEVI: Oh my god, I didn't do it... 1 hour and 11 minutes and 1 secondI heard the sound though. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 3 seconds\[LEVI GRUNTS\] 1 hour and 11 minutes and 5 seconds\[CHUCKLING\] 1 hour and 11 minutes and 6 secondsHe was trying to do some little, like, balance beam 1 hour and 11 minutes and 8 secondslike he was in the Olympics or something like that. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 11 secondsAnd then, like: "It's weird that my chest hurts down here. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 13 secondsWhy does my chest hurt? This hurts." 1 hour and 11 minutes and 15 secondsBecause I was on the side... 1 hour and 11 minutes and 18 secondsTIM: It wasn't until, like, I woke up in the middle of the night, 1 hour and 11 minutes and 20 secondsafter all the booze wore off I was like: 1 hour and 11 minutes and 22 seconds"Oh my god! What is this pain in my..." 1 hour and 11 minutes and 24 secondsAnd I had cracked a rib, and I went to the hospital 1 hour and 11 minutes and 26 secondsand got it fixed. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 29 secondsWe need to have more group events 1 hour and 11 minutes and 30 secondsat the company that aren't about booze probably. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 32 secondsWe should do that. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 51 secondsPAUL: Tim wants everybody to come back. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 53 seconds-Yes. -Everybody came back. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 54 secondsPAUL: Everybody got sick. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 56 secondsYep, so... 1 hour and 11 minutes and 57 seconds-Well, not everybody. -Most. 1 hour and 11 minutes and 59 secondsTIM: Oh, everyone else got COVID. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 0 secondsSo I got off easy with some broken rib. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 3 secondsIt is what it is. I mean... everyone has had it. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 6 secondsEveryone will have it again. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 7 secondsLike, if I talk about my mental health as affected by COVID, 1 hour and 12 minutes and 10 secondswho the fuck hasn't been? 1 hour and 12 minutes and 12 secondsI mean, it's-- it-- 1 hour and 12 minutes and 13 secondsCOVID... 1 hour and 12 minutes and 15 seconds...destroyed a lot of things. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 17 secondsBeyond the, like, very real health aspect of it. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 21 secondsLike, a lot of people died. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 23 secondsIt also, like, destroyed a lot of social circles. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 27 secondsIt destroyed that sense of... 1 hour and 12 minutes and 30 seconds...community for the lack of a better term. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 34 secondsJAMES: There is, like, a consistent presence at the office now 1 hour and 12 minutes and 37 secondson Mondays and Thursdays 1 hour and 12 minutes and 39 secondsthat I appreciate. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 40 secondsBut, um... 1 hour and 12 minutes and 43 secondsAs you can see, on Fridays it's a little more empty in here. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 47 secondsI definitely miss that still. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 49 secondsThe studio's been doing a lot of stuff to try to get people to come back in 1 hour and 12 minutes and 52 secondspurely off of positive reinforcement. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 55 secondsWe have board game nights. We do all sorts of stuff like that. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 57 secondsThere is no pressure for anyone to come in. 1 hour and 12 minutes and 58 secondsAnyone who does not want to come in for one reason or another, 1 hour and 13 minutes and 1 secondno questions are asked. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 2 secondsBut... I... 1 hour and 13 minutes and 4 secondsI do love when I get the opportunity to work with people again in the office. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 9 secondsDo you need help? 1 hour and 13 minutes and 11 secondsI like how much taller you get as you stand up. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 15 secondsPAUL: What do you think the future is? 1 hour and 13 minutes and 18 secondsHybrid. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 19 secondsI think-- I mean, it has to be. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 21 secondsI don't think it's going to be the same Double Fine as it used to be. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 26 secondsThe world has changed and we have to change with it, so. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 29 secondsPAUL: Do you think it'd be different if there were a lot of people here? 1 hour and 13 minutes and 31 secondsNo. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 33 secondsYeah, I mean a lot of people have moved away. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 34 secondsWhich is totally understandable. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 36 secondsYeah, I'm hoping to go to live in the Virgin Islands 1 hour and 13 minutes and 39 secondsand, like, work from the Virgin Islands. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 41 secondsAnd now we are in a position with this company where that's possible. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 46 secondsOh, yeah, I'm having you guys down! 1 hour and 13 minutes and 48 secondsYou gotta-- I'm convinced it's the most beautiful place I've ever seen. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 52 secondsI just love it. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 54 secondsLEVI: But just around here it's crazy seeing how much it's changed. 1 hour and 13 minutes and 56 secondsLike, the coffee shop that we went to is, like, not there anymore. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 0 secondsAnd we went there on one of the last days. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 2 secondsAnd we were like: "It sucks that you guys... 1 hour and 14 minutes and 5 seconds...have to close." 1 hour and 14 minutes and 6 secondsAnd they were like: "It's because of you, guys!" 1 hour and 14 minutes and 8 seconds\[LAUGHS\] 1 hour and 14 minutes and 11 secondsBecause we were not here to give them money anymore. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 13 secondsYeah... 1 hour and 14 minutes and 15 secondsIt's weird. It's very different. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 17 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 14 minutes and 18 secondsTAZIO: And, like, just experiencing the city again. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 20 secondsLike, you know, places burning down. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 22 secondsSuddenly there is a giant hole in the ground 1 hour and 14 minutes and 23 secondswhere there used to be a building. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 24 secondsAnd all this sun is, like, flooding in to an empty studio. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 30 secondsYeah, the transformation of San Francisco, 1 hour and 14 minutes and 33 secondsseeing that from a distance is strange. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 34 secondsReally strange. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 35 secondsFundamentally, I want to live in Copenhagen as well, you know? 1 hour and 14 minutes and 39 secondsJust, like, trying to get that-- 1 hour and 14 minutes and 42 secondsthat to work out is, like, a conflict in my life, you know, 1 hour and 14 minutes and 45 secondsthat I'm-- that I'm working on. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 49 secondsSETH: But it is also hard, because there are so many people 1 hour and 14 minutes and 50 secondsthat are really important to the company culture, 1 hour and 14 minutes and 53 secondsin my mind, that are now remote, you know? 1 hour and 14 minutes and 55 secondsLike Tazio and Naoko. 1 hour and 14 minutes and 57 secondsI'm bummed that the studio is never gonna be the way it was. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 1 secondI feel like every time somebody is just like: 1 hour and 15 minutes and 4 seconds"I'm gonna move away. I want to work remote forever." 1 hour and 15 minutes and 8 secondsI just feel like it, like... 1 hour and 15 minutes and 11 seconds...chips away at Tim a little bit. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 13 secondsLike, at his hope of things just being back to normal. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 20 secondsSARAH: You know, joining during the pandemic has been... 1 hour and 15 minutes and 23 secondsyou know, a little more isolating, 1 hour and 15 minutes and 24 secondsand a little harder to get to know people. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 27 secondsEverybody knows everyone 1 hour and 15 minutes and 29 secondsand I feel like I know no one. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 30 secondsI want that culture of Double Fine that I... 1 hour and 15 minutes and 34 seconds...haven't had. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 36 secondsI was kind of hoping that I'd come into what I had seen... 1 hour and 15 minutes and 41 seconds...in documentaries before. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 45 secondsASIF: Some of the little bits of the old world are returning 1 hour and 15 minutes and 47 secondsand I think that's just gonna keep happening. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 49 secondsEpisode 33! 1 hour and 15 minutes and 51 secondsAnd it makes those moments feel like the old times again. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 54 secondsJP: It feels like being back with the living so much more. 1 hour and 15 minutes and 57 secondsBut, you know, at the same time, yeah, 1 hour and 15 minutes and 59 secondslike, you know, the distance I've come to hold 1 hour and 16 minutes and 3 secondsmy professional life at over the years is, like... 1 hour and 16 minutes and 7 secondsI think it's a more healthy one. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 8 secondsI've had some mental health issues, 1 hour and 16 minutes and 10 secondswhich many people do, 1 hour and 16 minutes and 12 secondsand... I've never felt like I needed to worry 1 hour and 16 minutes and 15 secondsabout losing my job here 1 hour and 16 minutes and 17 secondsbecause, you know, I was going through a rough time. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 20 secondsAnd honestly the pandemic was... a real test of that. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 24 secondsYeah, I've always struggled with depression and... 1 hour and 16 minutes and 27 seconds...just erratic moods. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 29 secondsAnd, you know, I didn't realize how much of that was due to commuting 1 hour and 16 minutes and 32 secondsand going into the office every day. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 34 secondsBecause there were days where I, like-- I loved being in the office, 1 hour and 16 minutes and 36 secondsand there were days where it's like: 1 hour and 16 minutes and 37 seconds"I don't want to get on the bus right now. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 39 secondsLike, I just don't want to get up right now." 1 hour and 16 minutes and 41 secondsAnd, uh... 1 hour and 16 minutes and 43 secondsYou know, I never had energy to cook at home, 1 hour and 16 minutes and 45 secondsor exercise, or anything like that. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 47 secondsAnd then once we went remote it was like: 1 hour and 16 minutes and 48 seconds"Oh... like, I feel good." 1 hour and 16 minutes and 50 secondsYou know, I'd call in sick a lot before. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 53 secondsSo, I haven't-- 1 hour and 16 minutes and 54 secondsI haven't called in sick since, like, the pandemic started basically. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 56 secondsIt's, like, I just feel fine. 1 hour and 16 minutes and 57 secondsI wake up and I have time to go... 1 hour and 17 minutes and 0 secondsgrocery shopping, and do a little laundry. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 2 secondsAnd so for me it's just been, like, a tremendous boost to my mental health. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 5 secondsThat being said, I do miss seeing everybody. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 8 secondsToday I just got roped into, like, watching Tim playtest, 1 hour and 17 minutes and 10 secondsand had some impromptu conversations from that. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 12 secondsThat's just stuff I don't get remote, you know. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 14 secondsI'm not blind to what you miss out on. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 16 secondsAnd so, it's interesting. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 18 secondsLike, I don't think it's solved yet. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 19 secondsYeah, I would love to figure out how to replicate that 1 hour and 17 minutes and 21 secondswithout me having to come into the office everyday. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 31 secondsGEOFF: Having someone be able to, like, just turn around to you 1 hour and 17 minutes and 34 secondsand see what you are doing and being like: 1 hour and 17 minutes and 35 seconds"That's cool! 1 hour and 17 minutes and 37 secondsWhat if we did this?" 1 hour and 17 minutes and 40 secondsTAZIO: Like, someone will just make an off-hand remark 1 hour and 17 minutes and 42 secondsthat will make the whole thing click together. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 43 secondsAnd I'll be like: "Oh! I get it now!" 1 hour and 17 minutes and 45 secondsRight? 1 hour and 17 minutes and 46 secondsAnd not having those moments as readily available sucks. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 50 secondsIt just sucks. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 52 secondsIt's awesome. Like, coming into this place 1 hour and 17 minutes and 53 secondsthere is, like, so much history here. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 56 secondsI have memories from, like, every single project. 1 hour and 17 minutes and 58 secondsI've sat at, like, half of these desks. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 0 secondsSo I just look around and I'm like: 1 hour and 18 minutes and 2 seconds"Oh, man, that's the place I sat when I was working on that one thing." 1 hour and 18 minutes and 6 secondsAnd seeing so many people come and go. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 8 secondsThere is just, like, so many stories here. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 11 secondsMeaningless things that you don't chat about 1 hour and 18 minutes and 13 secondswhile you are, you know, at home... 1 hour and 18 minutes and 16 seconds...talking through the internet pipes. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 19 seconds-TIM: Don't touch them! -EMILY: I'm not gonna touch them! 1 hour and 18 minutes and 20 secondsTIM: Oh my god, you guys! 1 hour and 18 minutes and 22 seconds-ASIF: Is this gonna last? -EMILY: Is it gonna last? 1 hour and 18 minutes and 24 secondsIt's gonna dry! 1 hour and 18 minutes and 37 secondsWell, let's-- How does the story end? 1 hour and 18 minutes and 39 secondsHow are you gonna document-- 1 hour and 18 minutes and 41 secondsPAUL: We are waiting for you to have, like, a brilliant quote 1 hour and 18 minutes and 43 secondsthat could just, like, sum it all up, you know? 1 hour and 18 minutes and 45 secondsI was thinking about the future. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 47 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 18 minutes and 50 secondsBut I... do have a couple ideas that I really want to make. 1 hour and 18 minutes and 53 secondsBecause now I want to make games 1 hour and 18 minutes and 54 secondswhen it's fun and I don't have to worry about going out of business all the time. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 0 secondsSETH: And from my perspective, that's why I'm, like... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 3 seconds...really want to... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 6 seconds...help get an answer for what that next game is. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 8 secondsBecause I know at some point Microsoft is gonna come and be like: 1 hour and 19 minutes and 11 seconds"So, where is the next Tim Schafer game?" 1 hour and 19 minutes and 13 secondsI want to be able to be like: "Here is the development plan. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 16 secondsHere is the prototype. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 18 secondsLike, why wouldn't we build this?" 1 hour and 19 minutes and 20 secondsBut I do feel like Tim still has some fire. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 23 secondsLike, it's been fun working on new-- on some new projects with him. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 28 secondsSETH: Tim also kind of had this idea 1 hour and 19 minutes and 29 secondsthat I think he's been kicking around for a while in his head, 1 hour and 19 minutes and 31 secondsabout making something that was-- 1 hour and 19 minutes and 33 secondsinvolving like a \[...\] 1 hour and 19 minutes and 35 secondsUm... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 36 secondsAnd he kind of just threw it out there as like: 1 hour and 19 minutes and 37 seconds"Oh, someday I would like to make a game like this." 1 hour and 19 minutes and 39 secondsBut I was like: "Well, that... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 41 seconds...seems like a game that we could prototype." 1 hour and 19 minutes and 44 secondsNow I'm doing a game... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 45 secondsbut it's just me, and Seth, and Ray. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 47 secondsAnd it's so good! 1 hour and 19 minutes and 48 secondsI don't want anyone in the company to hear about it or know about it. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 50 secondsUm... 1 hour and 19 minutes and 52 secondsDid I forget any games? 1 hour and 19 minutes and 54 secondsAre we making another game? 1 hour and 19 minutes and 55 secondsYou. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 57 secondsThat's, uh... that's not even approved yet. 1 hour and 19 minutes and 59 secondsCan't talk about it. No updates. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 0 secondsUm... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 1 secondTIM: We are just making it by ourselves 1 hour and 20 minutes and 2 secondsand we are just trying to get as far as we can before anyone comes... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 6 seconds...and wants a piece of it. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 8 secondsSETH: And I'm kind of at the point where... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 10 seconds...the core game loop of the project we are working on now... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 15 secondslike, it could be a game. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 16 secondsLike, it could really-- it could really be a game. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 18 secondsAnd I think that there is a lot of stuff that we could fill in. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 20 secondsBut it would be great to get more people on. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 22 secondsSo, the question that we are trying to answer right now for ourselves is: 1 hour and 20 minutes and 26 seconds"Is this game the game we want to build next?" 1 hour and 20 minutes and 29 secondsAnd that's-- I mean, that's ultimately up to Tim... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 31 seconds...to make a call on. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 33 secondsUm... so, we'll see. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 35 secondsTIM: Great, great. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 36 secondsThank you. Thank you, Derek. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 38 secondsI haven't really given updates 1 hour and 20 minutes and 40 secondsbecause our team has been so small. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 41 secondsBut I got possibly two people bigger on accident recently. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 45 secondsTalking about implementing some stuff with Sarah, 1 hour and 20 minutes and 47 secondsand Emily doing some... 1 hour and 20 minutes and 51 secondsWhatever she wants. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 53 secondsSARAH: I know, I'm honestly surprised 1 hour and 20 minutes and 55 secondsthat he was willing to take me on. 1 hour and 20 minutes and 58 secondsPAUL: It's been long enough. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 0 secondsSARAH: I would think so. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 2 secondsAnd they've built a lot! 1 hour and 21 minutes and 3 secondsIt's impressive! 1 hour and 21 minutes and 5 secondsPAUL: Just in terms of that Double Fine experience you were craving... 1 hour and 21 minutes and 8 secondsIs it that obvious? 1 hour and 21 minutes and 10 secondsPAUL: Yeah, does it seem like this might be a step in the right direction? 1 hour and 21 minutes and 12 secondsPAUL: You are salivating right now. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 13 secondsSARAH: I'm-- I'm excited to, like, actually have meetings with people 1 hour and 21 minutes and 16 secondsin person, potentially. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 19 secondsAmazing! 1 hour and 21 minutes and 21 secondsUnheard of. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 22 secondsSo, yeah... 1 hour and 21 minutes and 26 secondsSCOTT: This is the dream time. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 27 secondsThis is when you are just-- 1 hour and 21 minutes and 29 secondsanything is possible. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 31 secondsBut it's definitely gotten me very excited about the game. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 34 secondsHere I am! I'm here! 1 hour and 21 minutes and 36 seconds-Oh my goodness! -Yay! 1 hour and 21 minutes and 37 secondsSCOTT: I remember-- 1 hour and 21 minutes and 39 secondsI think it was when Emily first joined us, 1 hour and 21 minutes and 42 secondsand I remember thinking-- 1 hour and 21 minutes and 45 secondsand she was just beginning-- 1 hour and 21 minutes and 47 secondsstarting to find her confidence or whatever, 1 hour and 21 minutes and 50 secondsbut it was obvious that she was a pretty brilliant concept artist. 1 hour and 21 minutes and 53 secondsAnd now that she's done Psychonauts, 1 hour and 21 minutes and 55 secondsshe has, like, an incredible confidence in her ideas, 1 hour and 21 minutes and 58 secondsand just, like, riffing and just creating this thing. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 2 secondsIt's fun to watch. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 4 secondsShe has the power to... 1 hour and 22 minutes and 6 seconds...inspire people. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 8 secondsWhich I think is what Tim has, you know? 1 hour and 22 minutes and 11 secondsYou know, and I can see it with Tim too. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 13 secondsLike, he is... 1 hour and 22 minutes and 15 secondsYou know, I mean, I can't imagine, like... 1 hour and 22 minutes and 17 secondsthe pressure of having to keep a company going, 1 hour and 22 minutes and 21 secondsand keep everyone happy, and keep everyone paid, 1 hour and 22 minutes and 23 secondsand, you know, from project to project, 1 hour and 22 minutes and 25 secondsand having to, like, try to get funding for every project. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 29 secondsAnd I could just see it in him now, 1 hour and 22 minutes and 31 secondslike, this comfort and inspiration. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 34 secondsHe feels almost more inspired than I've ever seen him now. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 37 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 22 minutes and 44 secondsHi, you guys! 1 hour and 22 minutes and 46 secondsYou are not last though. Geoff is right behind you. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 51 secondsWhat's that? Oh, you got vows! 1 hour and 22 minutes and 53 seconds-JAMES: Yeah. -TIM: Oh, yeah. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 54 secondsAre they too long? Is that too long? 1 hour and 22 minutes and 56 seconds-It can be as long as you want. -Okay. 1 hour and 22 minutes and 58 secondsTIM: My name is Tim. I'm a friend of the couple. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 0 secondsAnd I'm honored to have been asked to officiate this ceremony today. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 3 secondsI'm also James' employer 1 hour and 23 minutes and 4 secondsand this is just one of the many benefits we offer at Double Fine... 1 hour and 23 minutes and 8 seconds...apparently. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 10 secondsLoving dogs was just the start of Aiden's many positive attributes 1 hour and 23 minutes and 13 secondsrubbing off on James. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 14 secondsHe also got James cooking with more spice and flavor 1 hour and 23 minutes and 16 secondsand less Velveeta. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 17 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 1 hour and 23 minutes and 20 secondsIt's my pleasure to pronounce you a married couple. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 24 secondsGet kissing. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 25 seconds\[CHEERING\] 1 hour and 23 minutes and 28 secondsPAUL: How has your relationship with Tim evolved? 1 hour and 23 minutes and 31 secondsYeah, I don't know, I really like Tim. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 33 secondsI-- 1 hour and 23 minutes and 35 secondsI don't begrudge him for anything that happened on Psychonauts. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 38 secondsFor a while I did. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 39 secondsBut... I think I also expect him to be perfect. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 42 secondsI think a lot of people probably do. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 45 secondsAnd when it comes to what happened on Psychonauts 2, 1 hour and 23 minutes and 47 secondsI don't know-- I don't know how he could have known better. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 49 secondsTIM: I don't want to be-- 1 hour and 23 minutes and 50 secondsI have to be an asshole for a second and ask for some physical. 1 hour and 23 minutes and 52 secondsCould all of you who had just raised your hand 1 hour and 23 minutes and 54 secondsplease come to the stage for one second? 1 hour and 23 minutes and 55 secondsCould you just come up here, Grim team? 1 hour and 23 minutes and 57 secondsYou know, when Grim Fandango finished in '98, 1 hour and 24 minutes and 0 secondswe had to sign off on the game, 1 hour and 24 minutes and 1 secondand I was so-- 1 hour and 24 minutes and 3 secondswe all were pretty burnt out, 1 hour and 24 minutes and 5 secondsand left and went home and stayed home for three months. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 7 seconds\[LAUGHTER\] 1 hour and 24 minutes and 8 secondsYes, we laugh about it now. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 10 secondsAnd it was like: "Oh my god! 1 hour and 24 minutes and 12 secondsThat was a hell of a project." 1 hour and 24 minutes and 13 secondsBut besides saying thank you, I want to say 1 hour and 24 minutes and 15 secondsI'm so sorry for that horrible, horrible crunch that we all had. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 17 secondsYou are welcome to still-- 1 hour and 24 minutes and 18 secondsI'm not saying that so you all have to, like, like me now. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 20 secondsIt's fine. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 22 secondsYou can go on hating me forever, it was totally deserved. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 24 secondsAnd it sounds like an excuse, that's all we knew how to do back then. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 28 secondsThat was how we knew how to make games. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 29 secondsWe've learned a lot since then. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 30 secondsWe are still learning. 1 hour and 24 minutes and 31 secondsPAUL: At the P2... 1 hour and 24 minutes and 34 seconds...soundtrack celebration... 1 hour and 24 minutes and 36 seconds...in 23 years... 1 hour and 24 minutes and 37 seconds...what do you think you'll be apologizing for? 1 hour and 24 minutes and 39 seconds\[TIM LAUGHS\] 1 hour and 24 minutes and 40 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 24 minutes and 57 secondsPAUL: So we saw Tim deal with a lot of stuff and, um... 1 hour and 25 minutes and 1 seconddo you feel like we as a studio have tried to learn lessons from that experience? 1 hour and 25 minutes and 6 secondsHe does mention a lot of, like: 1 hour and 25 minutes and 8 seconds"When I saw this on the documentary, 1 hour and 25 minutes and 11 secondsI don't want that to ever happen again. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 13 secondsWe need to do better for this, and this, and this." 1 hour and 25 minutes and 15 secondsHe takes it very seriously. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 18 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 25 minutes and 45 secondsTIM: What did I learn from those choices? 1 hour and 25 minutes and 47 secondsAnd also what did we learn about the company 1 hour and 25 minutes and 49 secondsand what did we learn about ourselves? 1 hour and 25 minutes and 50 secondsBecause we learned so much. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 51 secondsAnd having this documentary to watch, like, taught us a lot. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 54 secondsSo, um... 1 hour and 25 minutes and 55 secondsWe actually ended up writing a company handbook from scratch. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 58 secondsWhich we didn't have a company handbook. 1 hour and 25 minutes and 59 secondsWe had, like, a handbook that said, like: 1 hour and 26 minutes and 1 second"Here are your California labor rights." 1 hour and 26 minutes and 2 secondsBut we didn't have, like: "What does it mean to be Double Fine?" 1 hour and 26 minutes and 5 secondsAnd, um... 1 hour and 26 minutes and 7 secondsBut besides of the good things 1 hour and 26 minutes and 9 secondsthat came out of the years we were working on Psychonauts 2, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 12 secondscoming up with the written down version of our-- 1 hour and 26 minutes and 15 secondsour vision and values, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 16 secondsour statement of being of Double Fine, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 19 secondsis one of the-- besides a good game, that was the other good thing 1 hour and 26 minutes and 21 secondswe brought out of all that pain and suffering. 1 hour and 26 minutes and 23 secondsIt was like: "Maybe we should actually write down 1 hour and 26 minutes and 25 secondswhat we think is important about being a game studio. 1 hour and 26 minutes and 29 secondsKEE: What are the things... 1 hour and 26 minutes and 31 seconds...that we treasure, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 32 secondsthat we want to make sure it's not lost or forgotten. 1 hour and 26 minutes and 35 secondsMALENA: Because in the end... 1 hour and 26 minutes and 37 secondsif you can learn from the past, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 41 secondswhether it's your mistakes or someone else's mistakes, 1 hour and 26 minutes and 45 secondsand if the rest of us can also take that same mentality and say: 1 hour and 26 minutes and 49 seconds"Well, let's-- let's do better." 1 hour and 26 minutes and 51 secondsThat's important. 1 hour and 26 minutes and 53 secondsPAUL: We've had a lot of new hires who have come on after P2. 1 hour and 26 minutes and 57 secondsPeople who have even watched the documentary and wanted to come here. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 1 second\[TIM CHUCKLES\] 1 hour and 27 minutes and 2 secondsTIM: Well, we've hired some really great people, 1 hour and 27 minutes and 4 secondsespecially in central tech. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 6 seconds"Everyone on my interview loop that I just talked to before you... 1 hour and 27 minutes and 9 seconds...was fantastic. Like, how did you do that? 1 hour and 27 minutes and 12 secondsHow did you just get them all here and then keep them?" 1 hour and 27 minutes and 15 secondsAnd he said: 1 hour and 27 minutes and 17 seconds"Just look for people who are kind." 1 hour and 27 minutes and 20 secondsThat's it. That's all he needed to say. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 22 secondsELSBETH: Before here I was at-- 1 hour and 27 minutes and 24 secondswhere... stuff happened, right? 1 hour and 27 minutes and 27 secondsLike, the documented stuff. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 29 secondsThe thing is is that they knew about that stuff for years 1 hour and 27 minutes and 33 secondsbefore it, like, came to a lawsuit. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 36 secondsAnd the fact that Double Fine acted upon it 1 hour and 27 minutes and 39 secondswas a very good sign to me. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 41 secondsAnd also the fact that there were women on the team 1 hour and 27 minutes and 43 secondswho had been here for over ten years... 1 hour and 27 minutes and 46 secondsIt's very rare in the industry to actually have that. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 49 secondsYeah. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 51 secondsBut the fact that action actually happened. 1 hour and 27 minutes and 54 secondsTIM: So, I mean, I feel like these are all people 1 hour and 27 minutes and 56 secondswho really fit with who we wanna be as a company for sure. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 1 secondBut some of the stuff that became values we wrote down, like: 1 hour and 28 minutes and 4 seconds"Good ideas can come from anywhere. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 7 secondsCulture of mutual respect." 1 hour and 28 minutes and 9 secondsIdeas about, you know, how flat the company is. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 12 secondsHow we treat each other. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 14 secondsIt was important to-- to write it down. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 16 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 28 minutes and 30 secondsJP: Yeah... 1 hour and 28 minutes and 32 secondsI think it's complicated, you know? 1 hour and 28 minutes and 34 secondsBecause every day is, like, a new little... experience. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 38 secondsEverybody is learning different things. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 40 secondsPeople are internalizing good things that happen, 1 hour and 28 minutes and 42 secondsbad things that happen. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 44 secondsBecause, yeah, you could certainly... 1 hour and 28 minutes and 46 seconds...wrap it up with a nice little bow. 1 hour and 28 minutes and 49 secondsAnd sort of look back on something that was difficult, 1 hour and 28 minutes and 52 secondsbut you managed it in the end and say: 1 hour and 28 minutes and 54 seconds"It was all worth it." 1 hour and 28 minutes and 55 secondsBut life is just so full of situations... 1 hour and 28 minutes and 59 seconds...where you can't really say that, you know? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 2 secondsI am happy that the studio has gone through its difficulties, 1 hour and 29 minutes and 7 secondsand survived, 1 hour and 29 minutes and 8 secondsand is trying to improve in good faith, you know? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 12 secondsWe are growing together as a team. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 14 secondsAnd we are becoming so much more powerful because of that, you know? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 24 seconds\[CHEERING\] 1 hour and 29 minutes and 26 seconds\[MUSIC\] 1 hour and 29 minutes and 28 secondsJP: But, yeah, you know. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 29 secondsThis has been y'all's life, right? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 31 secondsI really thought about what you all have-- 1 hour and 29 minutes and 34 secondswhat this has been like for-- for y'all, 1 hour and 29 minutes and 35 secondslike, at pretty much every step of the way, you know, and... 1 hour and 29 minutes and 39 secondsYeah, no, it's-- yeah. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 41 secondsPAUL: We've been on this project since 2015. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 43 secondsTwenty fif-- 1 hour and 29 minutes and 44 secondsYeah. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 45 seconds\[CHUCKLES\] 1 hour and 29 minutes and 47 secondsHow much more are you all shooting? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 48 secondsAm I the last bit of footage that you all are shooting around this? 1 hour and 29 minutes and 52 secondsPAUL: As the sun lowers into the horizon. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 54 seconds-Hell, yeah! -I would hope so. 1 hour and 29 minutes and 55 secondsYeah, roll fucking credits. Yeah, roll fucking credits. Show transcript timestamps